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- - Snow Camo (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting/122796-snow-camo.html)

As it is snowing outside, I was wondering what you guys perfer for late season snow camo? Do you think the pure white works best, or some sort of break up outline?

To the human eye, the snow camo is pretty darn nice. But, I'm not sure about game that see ultraviolet. There is an aweful lot of ultraviolet gathering dye in most white garments. Use a black light to see it. Personally, I stay away from most of it for that reason.

I like a little pattern and not the totally white simply because I spend most of my time in a tree or hunkered in a blow down or something like that. This outfit is Apparition Horizon, not a total white but works great in a tree on overcast days or when snow is hanging all over them. Snowflage type stuff is the best camo going. Forget all that UV crap. I've had as many as 17 deer walk in single file past me at less than 10 yards as I leaned against a fence post. They never knew I was there. I've had a zillion positive experiences with snowflage type camo and never a bad one. You disappear.

After looking at both snow camo outfits against the snow covered woodland backdrop, you would think that the manufacture would make the outline break-up blend in to the white instead of a hard outline.

X-LINY

How about this:
Snow camo
I have a poncho with this pattern , when I sit on a stool I just disappear into the snow . Deer walk right by and don't spook . Click on the picture to zoom in on the image and you'll see how simple the pattern is , it blends in very well .

Quote:

ORIGINAL: X-LINY

After looking at both snow camo outfits against the snow covered woodland backdrop, you would think that the manufacture would make the outline break-up blend in to the white instead of a hard outline.

X-LINY

I don't understand what you are talking about.

Quote:

I've had as many as 17 deer walk in single file past me at less than 10 yards as I leaned against a fence post.

I can believe that, I have even had deer almost walk into me while I was wearing a plaid flannel and blue jeans. But, that is when I am remaining totally still. Any movement and I would have been busted.

Drawing a bow (as well as getting into position) requires movement, and if I happen to get busted, I don't want to stand out, but blend into my envirement. That is why I stay on the safe side, especially with deer andUV.

You may want to put it down and call it crap Dave, and I know that is your opinion. But, there is logic to my opinion also. It's a shame however, that we can't agree to disagree without calling others opinion crap.

So you own some stock in a UV killer do you????? Wash your clothes as you do your camo and you're good to go. I have always had better success in snow with snow flage than with some big dark suit that looks like a tree trunk was planted. We can distinquish colors etc and if it's harder for us to see I'd say it's 10 times harder for a critter that sees black/grey/white shades. The UV scare was big 10 years ago but then we learned it was a scam industry started to take some more of our hard earned bucks. Some of us never fell for it. Yes deer key in on movement, but they're not totally blind. How many of us have satfrozen like a statue 20 feet up and down wind only to have a deer suddenly swing it's head and look up for the big stare down. They're not as blind as people think and they don't have powers to see the color spectrum outside what we see. That's where the UV is you know. It's a scam/scare crap.

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So you own some stock in a UV killer do you?????

I have no idea what you are talking about. Nice try on the insinuation. Sad.[&o]

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They're not as blind as people think and they don't have powers to see the color spectrum outside what we see.

Really? So deer do not have the ability to see UV? Maybe you're right, but I'd sure like to see some sound research on that. Most of the research that I have seen says the opposite (deer can see UV).

Here is a link that basically says, it may but probably is not a real concern. I can send you a link to a real scientific study that I can't even understand and I know it would put everyone to sleep. So, read this one. I get, "maybe... but doubtful". The world and the guy in his jeans and flo orange have been killing deer forever. UV hasn't scared them all away now has it. Realize this study was probably done for some clothing or sports wash company.[8D]
http://espn.go.com/outdoors/tips/s/c_fea_QDMA_what_deer_see.html

Just read the article Dave, and I don't see at all (even one sentence) how it supportsyour quote.

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They're not as blind as people think and they don't have powers to see the color spectrum outside what we see.

and

It's a scam/scare crap.

Actually I think if anything it supports the theory that deer can see UV.
What I was hoping to see from you was some research supporting your theory that deer cannot see UV, and that whole thing is a scam. If there is any publication out there which addresses this, I would really like to see. Because I never have.

Here is a study done on deer vision (It's really not that long) ( I would have given an excerpt, but I couldn't cut and paste):

http://www.ihea.com/documents/Hunter_Orange_Study.pdf#search='deer%20vision%20ul traviolet'

This is from the NYS DEC:
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/sportsed/safety.html

excerpt: In addition to having this kind of red-green color blindness, deer have different sensitivity to various wavelengths of light than humans. Deer see short wavelength colors such as blue (and even ultra-violet, which humans cannot even see) brighter than humans do, but deer are less sensitive to longer wavelengths such as orange and red, so these colors look darker to deer than they do to humans.

Article:

http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/openwhitetail3.html

excerpt:
Scientists previously believed deer were color blind and saw everything in monochromatic shades of gray. Reasoning this is the reason hunters can wear bright, phosphorescent clothing without being noticed by deer. More recent research contends rather that they see in more of the ultraviolet light spectrum. Regardless, the deer's eyes are very sharp and quick to take in the slightest movement but will pass right over a stationary object. Many hunters, standing absolutely still, have had deer walk up to within a few feet and never see them.

Bill Jordan excert:

Though deer are not completely color blind, they are nearly so. However, it is still important to match the habitat in camouflage color and pattern. What the deer don't see in hue, they can see in tonal contrast. A bright green and an olive drab look as different to a deer as they do to you and me, just in a different way.
Reflectance is a big issue. The best camouflage is drab and dull in both color and finish. Different fabrics take dye differently and reflect light differently.
Deer are more sensitive to the ultra-violet spectrum than we are. Hunting clothes should be washed in a pure soap or a detergent that contains no brighteners. There are products called "UV killers" available that eliminate ultra-violet reflection.
When camo becomes faded, it loses its contrast and much of its camouflaging effectiveness. It also becomes lighter in color and reflects more light. Replace faded camo garments with new ones having a fresh, crisp pattern.

You know what this comes down to is that we have different opinions. I can live with that. But there is no need to try to totally discredit anothers opinion on an a subject that there may not be any undisputed proof.

I am planning on buying the Natural Gear snow camo cover-ups. I think for the wooded areas I hunt, it will work out great. I haven't used snow camo yet so I won't have anything to compare to though.

Thanks to all for the good articles.

Tom