pls explain - why not this shot
 

I have read many times that straight down thru a deers back is not acceptable with a bow, why not?
If you miss the spine why wouldn't the broadhead find vitals?The heart and lungs are still in there, why wouldn't an arrow passing thru a lung from top to bottom be as effective as an aroow passing thru the sides?

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

IMO, aiming for the spine is not an ethical shot. If the shot is straight down, you will have to go through an awful lot of bone to hit the heart. Too many variables there for my taste (deflection off bone for one). As far as lungs, you will only take one out. Finding a single lunged deer is one of the most difficult tracking tasks that there is. A lot has been posted on that one here on the forum.

Again, this is a low percentage shot IMO.

Where as a double lunged deer should be a 100% recovery.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

Not that it wouldn't kill the deer but it just leaves more room for problems. Deer have been known to live with one lung and even if they don't, they can go a long way on one lung and the greater distancea deer goes from the point of impact the lesser the chances of recovery. Anyhow if you are facing a straight down shot, then it's hard for me to believe that the deer didn't offer a broadside shot before it got under the stand and even harder for me to believe that it won't offer a broadside leaving from beneath the stand.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

BobCo mentioned the crux of the matter : Low percentage.

Shooting straight down a difficult shot to make. That lowers your percentage off of the bat. Then add the fact that your 9 or 10 inch kill zone shrinks to about 4 or 5 inches, that lowers your percentage by another 50%.

IF you hit the center of the spine, yes you will probably drop the deer right there, but the odds are against you. Miss the spine either side and you've probably got a single lung and no heart hit at best . You may also catch a rib at the terminus where it's strongest rather than in it's middle where it's weakest.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I myself would be tempted to take such a shot, but then I'd lean out and look down and probably get a bit of vertigo and have to forget it:D

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

also, a complete pass through is not likely, therefor there is no bloodtrail whatsoever with the entrance wound on top of the deer

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

It may be a smaller kill zone but chances are if it is staight down then the deer is only 5-7 yards away which if you have been practicing like most ethical hunters do,you should not have a problem putting a lethal shot from that distance. Just my opinion.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

In my earlier years, I tookthe straight down shot (e.g. <10 ft from the tree) several times and (fortunately) had never lost a deer doing it. (I'd rig my waist belt so I could lean out over the stand, and had well practiced the shot). Toughest(and last) time occured~1988 when I missed the spine and heart on a forkie, and tallow plugged the exit hole. I found (stumbled upon) the buck~200yds away some two hours later. I am a believer that straight downis not a good percentage shot, and now wait for the broadside or quarteting away. Ditto the above posts on single lung hits. If the good angle doesn'thappen, there is always another day...
-fsh

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

Several years ago I took this shot on a deer I rattled in. He came in fast and stopped under my tree. He was headed in a direction that would not allow for a shot after passing. The arrow entered beside the spine and did not exit. As the deer ran off I was kicking myself because of all the arrow sticking out. I assumed it had not penetrated far enough. After an hour I tried to trail but there was no blood. Apparently the arrow did its job and cut up the lungs as he ran off and eventually worked its way down thru the brisket. The last 10yds was a stream of blood. Fortunately he didn't go far and I was able to recover him by simply following the general direction he went. If I had it to do over I would not take the shot as at the time I remember how sick I felt thinking I had wounded the animal and would not be able to recover it.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I have taken two deer in this situation, one asrecent as 2 weeks ago. Both resulted in very quick kills. The doe I took 2 weeks ago only made it about 70 yards before piling up. She came on a string straight to my stand, i was drawn on her at 25 yards out but never offered a shot. She passed directly underneath me and was about to enter a large pine thicket and i knew i wouldn't have a shot then. I bent at the waist and placed my pin just to the side of the center of the back right behind the shoulder. The arrow entered exactly where i was aiming (shot straight through the backstrap) and exited the deer's brisket, taking out the heart, and stuck in the ground. She ran off about 70 yds and stopped and i could see her tail wagging rapidly and i knew i had her and seconds later she crashed and never moved again. The arrow broke off, most of the arrow was left in the deer, except the broadhead. Came back to where the shot happened and found the broadhead and about 6" of arrow still stuck in the ground.

The other deer was a small buck several years ago with virtually identical results.

I agree that it isn't the highest percentage shot available, but under the right situation i'd take it again.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

There are groups of nerves under the spine as well as a major arteries. One way to look at it is if you get a good hit then there will be no tracking, it will drop the deer off it's feet,you may have to put another arrow in it's vitals, but more than likely it will bleed out rather quick with the correct shot to the spine.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I think kenetic energy and broadhead type should play a role in this decision. For example: I have 74 ft pounds of KE. It may be acceptable to take that shot if using a fixed blade broadhead. However, with a mechanical broadhead with a 1.5 inch cutting diameter I wouldn't even think about it. What is your KE and what type of broadhead are you using? If your KE is on the low side forget it...noneed to think about it any further.Ask yourself those questions along with everything else listed here and you should be able to make a better decision. If you still decide to take the shot (with low KE) only your circumstances will change your decision for future shots.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I have taken this shot 3 times, the result is 3 dead deer with no tracking! This low percentage shot you all are talking about, I dont get it. You cant hit a 2" target straight down? Plus if you do miss you are going to catch 1 lung. How many of you will take a quatering away, much less a quartering twards? I will take a straight down in a heartbeat, especially before that 30 yard quartering to shot! Just like anything elst dont shoot to far forward, make sure you know where his legs are.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

That means absolutely nothing to me. Targets do not equal game. Big difference between the two.

I don't want to catch one lung. I want both oror nothing at all (well except heart).

I'd take a quartering away shot, but not a quartering to shot.


Congratulations on your kills. But, I wouldn't have shot.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

Bob you lost me on the target coment, I understand it is game but doesnt it still have a target in the side of it (i.e behind the shoulder,4th rib). Quartering away is a very HIGH percentage single lung shot also, there is the chance of a heart, but then again there is the same chance on a straight down shot also!

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

As for kinetic energy I have no idea what I'm shooting, can someone help me out?

ProLine Sniper set to around 55lbs (I have a very short draw length, approx 26.5")
Arrows are 2213 aluminum with 100gr Wasp fixed blade broadheads.

As for waiting for a broadside shot I have a stand at the edge of a very small clearing (10 x 35yrds) in pine/cedar grove. A good trail runs the length of the clearing. If deer come from behind me into the clearing I'm fine, but if they enter from the front my choices are; quartering to, straight down, or don't shoot because it gets thick real fast anywhere out of the clearing, thats why I posted the question.

Thanks for all the input.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

Clear out shooting lanes...simple as that.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I'm with Tee jay,I also have taken this shot 3 times and watched all three deer walk about 20 paces and fall over. All 3 were dead within 4 to 5 minutes of the shot. Complete pass thurs on all 3 with lots of blood on the ground. I don't aim for the spine I aim left of it and picture the heart as my exit . To each his own but I say it is one of the most lethal shots there are.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

tschaef,

To calculate your KE. Go to a local shop and shoot your bow through a chronograph. Get the average speed in fps. Then have them weigh your arrows. Take these two numbers and plug it into the KE calculator on www.goldtip.com

To find the calculator,hold your cursor over theproducts link...it should be at the bottom of pop up window.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I haven't, and won't take the shot that we're discussing, I like to keep the odds in my favor as much as possible, BUT I have two friends that have tried it and both failed to recover the deer. Both got complete pass throughs, one used mechanical, the other fixed. Both had great blood trails to start with, but both blood trails faded to nothing, or so little that they could follow. They both tracked nearly 1/2 mile, and then did grid search from there. Neither recoveredan animal.
Both were relatively new at bow hunting, and they learned the hard way, that from now on, keep the odds in your favor, or pass on the shot! Why chance it?
Congrats to those of you who the shot worked for, BUT odds are that it will fail you eventually!

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

i do not take this shot and select hunting locations that provide broadside or slight quartering away shots instead.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

Sorry, what I meant is that there are more variables invloved in shooting at live game then at a target.

That could be true depending at the angle which I guess I didn't specify. Anyway, I wouldn't take a hard quartering away shot. But a slight quartering away is vey deadly.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I guess that is exactly what I am trying to say about the shot that is straight down!

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I guess I'm not following you.

I would most definetley take a quartering away shot and hit both lungs. Not a problem. If the angle it too severe though, I wouldn't.

Getting both lungs should be a 100% recovery rate. Getting only one is not. According to John Trout (who is an expert in deer recovery), a single lung hit deer is his least favorite hit to track. Success rate of recovery is low. Now, I'm talking one lung, nothing else.

IMO, aiming at a spine is not ethical. Hey, that's just my opinion. And I would never purposely aim at the spine.

Now if I was confident I could hit a heart on a straight down shot, I'd do it. My problem is having to get through all of that bone that is in my way. To tell the truth, penetration is only part of the reason. The other is arrow deflection. Have you ever seen how an arrow will deflect by just hitting a branch, stick, leaves, etc? Why would I think any other different that bone could not deflect an arrow? Now, if I get that deflection, I'm more then likey to get one lung, which I already stated that I didn't want to do.

TeeJay, what this amounts to is my opinion vs. your on the shot. I have presented my case and you have presented yours. If I absolutely had to put meat on the table, my opinion might be different. But, at this stage of the game I am here to enjoy hunting as part of the archery sport. Possibly wounding an animal is not very much fun. I wish you well, and hope everything works out for you - really.

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

10-4 BobCo, well stated.
-fsh

RE: pls explain - why not this shot
 

I'll side with Bobco on this one. Too much junk in the way to pary the arrow. The spine straight on is a tough bugger. With this shot you're hoping to miss all the bad possibilities and have EVERYTHING go your way. That's why we love the broadside shot, What bad possibilities...NOT MANY. When you have to start saying, "If I can do this, and if this doesn't happen........"... well, you're already in a bad situation. You want to take this shot then do it. I suspect that 50 percent of the time you'll beable to give us a first hand story as to "WHY NOT".