NewbHunter

Well like everyone said nothing against x-bows but i prefer a compound. But who ever prefers a x-bow over a compound same thing, enjoy it and be safe.

kevin1

Hunt with what makes you feel best .

Paul L Mohr

I have owned both and prefere a compound as well. When you really compare the two the Xbow really does not have that many advantages over a modern compound.

Apple, I don't know how to break this to you, but there are several bows on the market that devolope more energy than some Xbows do. If you have a long enough draw length some will shoot an arrow that is longer and heavier at the same speeds with a 70 lb draw weight. And do it more accurately and quietly to boot.

I'm not going to say your average set up can do it, but it can be done. You better have a big bank acount making a wager like that. You might be paying a few thousand dollars at the end of it. My Bowtech Mighty Might has an advertised speed of 324 fps, that is faster than some crossbows are. I have personally had mine close to 300 fps with 60lbs of draw weight and 26 inches of draw with a short light arrow.

If you could, this would be something I would be very interested in knowing. Shoot your crossbow thru a chrono and weigh one of the bolts for me. I'm curious as to what the real performance of these things are. I know my current bow beats the crap out of my older barnette that I had. And it was a 150 lb compound. I might do some research on my own as well.

I'm not trying to be a prick, just letting you know that there are some modern compounds that can acheive what a crossbow can.

Paul

twogun

If I'm understanding this, your crossbow only drops between 2"-3" from 30 to 40 yards. I'm curious as to which brand and model bow and what bolt weight gives you this type of performance.

According to Horton, a 345 fps bow with a436 gr. bolt will drop 9 inches from 30 to 40 yards. A 359 fps with a 385 gr. bolt will drop 8 inches. The total drop from 20 to 40 yards with the faster setup is 10". That being said, I don't know of a crossbow rated for 359 fps. The fastest I'm aware of is the Excalibur Exomax @ 225# and 350 fps. The slower example from Horton, 345 fps, drops 13" from 20 to 40yards. I would guess that mostr guys shooting top brand and model bows get somewhere around 310-320 fps.

www.crossbow.com/more-to-arrows.htm

Arthur P

twogun, they mess with arrow drop numbers a lot. It's hard to tell whether they're talking actual arrow drop or trajectory and a lot of people get confused.

Drop is firing the projectile - arrow, bolt or bullet - perfectly level with the ground and measuring how far itfalls at different distances.

With trajectory, you're launching the projectile at an upward angle, rising above the line of sight in the middle distances, dropping onto the line of sight where the sight is zeroed, then dropping below line of sight beyond that.

If that crossbow bolt is fast enough, and the sight is set for something around 35-37 yards, then I can believe those numbers. I can't say for sure because I have never shot an arrow or crossbow bolt anywhere near that fast. Don't even particularly want to, for that matter.[:-]

pwrsrtk350

The biggest reason I hunt with a crossbow is because I feel more comfortable shooting from the stand with it. I hunt 99 percent of the time from the tree. In the height of buck fever, I dont want to have to worry about staying balanced on the tree stand while trying shoot. I think I can get a cleaner more accurate shot sitting with a crossbow. I have a rail on my stand so I cant shoot a compound sitting. And I try not to go past 30 yards with it also because of the drop. If I plan on a stalk, then I will take my compound.

Paul L Mohr

well I did a little bit of searching and it seems crossbolts are a bit heavier than I originally thought. I figured because of the shorter lengths the weights would be less than common compound set up. They are actually pretty close. Around 325 to 450 grns or so depending on what they are made of and how long they are. That is pretty much what you would see in compound bows.

But I did find that while there are a few crossbows that shoot fast, like 345 fps or so that is not the typical performance. And those are usually with lighter 350 grn bolts 175-200 lb draw weights, and possibly longer rails for a bit more power stroke. The average seems to be around 300 fps, either a bit over, or a bit under.

While I was a bit off on the weights there are still some modern bows that can compete with that.The Black Night II comes to mind. I'm sure there a few others as well.

You might want to dust off your check book. There might be a few on here that take you up on that offer. And that doesn't even include the macho guys shooting 90+lbs of draw weight, or 32 inches of draw length.

Arthur makes a good point about point of aim and trajectory as well.

I'm going to play with a ballistics calculator next to see what sort of speed you would need for that kind of trajectory.

Paul

twogun

I don't believe that there is a crossbow on the market that only drops 2-3 inches from 30 to 40 yards where ever it is zeroed.

Paul L Mohr

Well I did some playing with the On Target 2 software from pinwheel and a ballistics calculator and discovered a few things. Some I pretty much figured others were interesting.

For one; like Arthur said, drop and percieved trajectory are two different things. Trajectory has to do with how the projectile intersects your line of sight as it goes above it and then drops back into it again. On a rifle or scoped crossbow sight height and sight in range effect this. On a bow the peep height, sight height, sight radius, nock position and distance to the target can effect the percieved trajectory.

I also discovered that the weight of the projectile has little to do with it at these short distances, providing the speed remains constant. Obviously if you use a shorter lighter arrow or bolt out of the same weapon it will give you an increase in speed. But if you compare a bow or crossbows at the same speeds it doesn't matter that one shoots a 350 grn arrow or a 450 grn arrow or bolt. As long as the speeds are the same the trajectory and drop will be the same at short disances. KE will increase with the heavier arrow though.

I figured most crossbows use a scope or short radius sights so I used a ballistics calculator for some of it. I compared it with On Target though to see that I got simular results so it wasn't way off or something. I also used my girlfriends step dad's cheap crossbow with a red dot sight as a referance for sight height and what not. I used 3 inches for the sight height. For the bow comparison I used On Target with a Bowtech black knight shooting 345 fps with a 30 inch draw, a peep sight and a copper john's dead nuts 3-d sight.

This is what I came up with;

With a 30 yard sight in a crossbow would need to shoot around 420 fps to get 3" of drop at 40 yards. However if you sighted in at 40 yards the bolt would be 3" high with a speed of 378 fps. Both of these are much faster than your ordinary crossbow will shoot. The bow was pretty close to that from what I could tell, though you have to do some guessing because On Target won't calculate speeds that high, I think the limit was 375 fps. The bow seemed to have a very slight advantage in percieved trajectory because of the increased sight radius and sight height. Not enough that it would really make any difference though.

Here is the interesting part. If you set the speed to 345 fps and sight in at 35 yards you are 1.8" high at 30 and only 2.6 inches low at 40 with the crossbow. With the bow I got 1.62" high at 30 and 2.39 inches low at 40. And at 20 yards you would be around 3" high. Those are pretty impressive performance results in my opinion. You could easily shoot to 40 yards with one pin if you wanted to for deer sized game, maybe even a bit farther.

Also the On Target software which seems to be fairly accurate when I use it shows the BKII capable of 360+ fps with some minor tweaks to the set up. Like a slightly longer draw, a few more pounds of draw weight and a 350 grn arrow with nothing on the string except for a loop. It's not uncommon to get a bow that is supposed to be 30 inches and 70 lbs to actually be 30.5 inches and 71 or 72 lbs maxed out. There are a few here that own them, I am curious if that is something that could actually be attained in the real world. I haven't heard of anyone shooting those kinds of speeds, but they don't shoot that light of an arrow either.

And I didn't do this to antagonize anyone or prove a point. It is something I have wondered about myself and I was bored. This just inspired me to actually play with it. I figured others would find it interesting as well. And keep in mind this is just using calculators and the such. If I had a chrono I would actually compare a crossbow to a bow at the same speeds just to see. You know, I might actually try it now that I think about it. However they would be much slower speeds because I don't have access to anything that fast. I could prove or dissprove the science behind it though.

I do think for someone little like me a top of the line crossbow could be an advantage in speed and KE. There is no way at my draw length and size I could reach those speeds with any bow. But your average cheap crossbow is not that much better than the bow I currently have. I know the cheap one I bought for her step dad is not even as fast. But it's only a 100lb recurve. And in MI they are only legal during gun season unless you have special permit. But I have much better things to use during shotgun season than a crossbow. That would be challenge out of my blind though. A crossbow at 70 or 80 yards. That's a joke guys, don't freak out on me. Might be fun with a 3-D target though.

Paul

ljackso

Thanks for your post. I have shot a compound for years, I am 64, and I am having trouble with my shoulder. I was thinking about going to a cross bow....perhaps I should just go down to 60# and continue with the compound.