Here's a question for you!!!
 

I have a friend of mine who I have hunted with for years. He is, for the most part, very respectable when it comes to hunting and ethics. However, we had a "disagreement" about the upcoming season. He informed me that he was going to shoot the "first thing that walks by him". I was OK with that until he said that he would shoot a spike BEFORE he shot a doe. When I asked him why he said that the spike did not had a chance at antler growth, and that it was best to take it out of the herd. I did not agree with this, and he told me that I was not going to change his mind. IMO, the best way to control the herd is to harvest does. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a doe. As a mater of fact, I try to take at least 1-2 does per year. Does anyone have any information on the genetics of spikes and if they have the capabiltiy to grow "respectable" racks in the future? My gut is that they can. I want to go back to my buddy and show him some proof, so maybe he will change his mind. I will be pretty pi$$ed off if he shots a spike. Am I wrong for being this way???[&:][&:]

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Whether that spike would have developed a good rack later or not is irrelevant , it's his choice if he wants to shoot it because it's legal for him to do so unless your state has antler restrictions .

Would you like it if he insisted that you shoot nothing but does until their numbers were sufficiently reduced ? That's about the same thing you're asking of him . Let him make his own choices .

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Your question has been debated many times. I have read articles that support both sides of the argument. Too many factors I guess to determine what the potential of a spike is:eek:

I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Hunting for me is to do what makes me happy and satisfied. I have passed on spikes and I have also taken spikes. Let him hunt how he wants and you hunt how you want, but most of all...........continue to hunt together.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

A spike can become a booming buck, depending on why its a spike at the time. Last years late season spike can be a B and C some day. As for your friend, if he is eating it and not wasting it, its hisprerogative. Now if he shoots an older deer that is still a spike, then yea it needs culling. That is if he is trying to manage genetics.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

One thing I forgot to mention......it was HIS idea to let the bucks grow!!! I do not have a problem with his hunting ethics. He is a great shot, and knows a lot about hunting. My problem is he may be taking deer that have a lot of potential. Also, we both agreed (last year) to let the smaller bucks develop. He has a family of 5 to feed, and they eat all of the meat that he gets from his deer. Again, I think that is great. I just would rather see him take does in place of the spikes. That's all. I enjoy hunting with him, and I don't think this will effect me hunting with him or not. I guess if it comes down to it, I will just shut my mouth and let it happen!!![:@][:@]

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Given a chance to grow a spike could be a P&Y within 3 years....your friends reasoning is mistake by years of misinformation but it is his choice to shoot a spike if he wishes.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

I would just try and educate him some more. Yes, a spike CAN become a much better deer. The majority of spikes are late born deer, rather than inferior deer. Deer & Deer Hunting did a series on it a while back that was good. Of course there is still no way to know what it will amount to. Bottom line is, it won't amount to anything but a spike if he shoots it.

Isn't Ohio a 1 buck state? He would want to waste his tag on a spike, and be done? I say if he wants todo that, let him. You hold out and shoot the big one :DHe'll come around eventually.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Ditto

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

i wouldnt shoot the spike(i cant anyway). Usually I have the same philosophy.. Whatever walks by is dead.. I like the meat in the freezer

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

WV/Hunter-
Actually, my friend lives in SE Indiana. I have hunted with him for 12 years. I live in SW Ohio and SE Indiana is only 25 minutes away. To answer your question.....Ohio AND Indiana are 1 buck states. If he shoots a spike he will have one of his kids check it in for him. I don't agree with this either, but it doesn't matter. I guess this could question his ethics huh??? I only purchase an archery license (the NR price for IN. is $120.75 PER season!!) So I try and wait on a buck, but if it comes to it, I will take a doe, which I did last year. He will not listen to me, nor do I think he will care about the research in D&DH. I think I will hunt more in OH this year anyway, but I still plan on hunting in IN. I am sure he has his reasons(meat for the family, thinning the herd...), but it still is hard to accept!!!

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Twotypes -meat hunters and trophy huntersto each his/her own, keep the friendship intact don't push the issue upon him. JMO

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

There is a lot of grey area in between those two ends of the spectrum IMO.

As long as what he is doing is legal and safe........it's really none of your business. You can/shoud and sounds like you did discuss it as friends and hunting partners so both your viewpoints are out in the open and that is all you can do. What he does in the woods is up to him and no one else. Unless it is your land.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

doughboy...I wouldn't worry too much about it then. Just go out and have fun. Don't ruin your friendship over it...there are plenty of deer out there. Sounds like he's gonna do what he wants anyhow, and is not very open minded anyhow. Probably the only way he will change his mind, is when he sees you consistently shoot bigger deer than him(after passing up small ones), and he's still shooting spikes. I actually had this happen with a guy in our club. Good luck :D

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/tips/s/c..._equation.html

"There are few issues that have created more controversy than the culling of spikes. While we still do not have the definitive answer, results of our study should increase our understanding of antler growth in free-ranging whitetails. At this point, it appears that culling of yearling deer, no matter what they produce as their first set of antlers, may not be a good idea."

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

A spike CAN become an impressive racked buck. I read an article on it in Deer and DeerHunting a few years back, and they have penned spikes that turned out to be big racked bucks. Also, there are some spikes that have inferior genes. My understanding is that the spikes who will always have a poor rack are far fewer in number than spikes who can grow bigger racks.

Your friend wants to let small bucks walk, but will shoot spikes because he doesn't think they will ever grow to be big bucks. Therefore, you need to educate him that this is not necessarily true. It isn't like he said he just wants to shoot something legal, and a spike is legal. He WANTS to practice QDM, and needs to be informed of the facts on spikes so that he can better get where he wants to go.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

I hear ya WV. He is going to do what he wants to do, regardless of what I say. I know some of his other buddies will "rib" him if he kills a spike and shows it to them. Oh well....like I said earlier.....I plan on hunting in Ohio a lot more this year!!! Another concern of mine is what is he teaching his kids by doing this?? I have 2 boys (9 and 3), who are REALLY interested in hunting. I am not saying I am "holier than thou", but I want my kids to know the importance of letting the small ones go. Then someday maybe they will have a chance to get a big one. I guess it goes back to what I think is important for me to teach my kids.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

dough boy,

There are alot of variables that come into play when trying to determine if a spike willgrow to be a trophy. Some will and some won't. You can start by observing the type of deer that are in your area. If you see alot of mature bucks with big racks then it is possible the spike is just a late born deer. If you see alot of older spikes or older split horn deer (Y antlers with no brow tines) then it might be safe to say he will never grow that trophy rack. Another is the food, have the deer been eating good through the winter?

Three things determine a deers anlter size and shape. 1. Genetics, 2. Food (how much and quality) and 3. Age

Don't let it bother you too much, enjoy your hunting buddy and be happy for him no matter what hehappens to shoot.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Spikes will grow more antlers if given the chance. Last year I passed on two spike bucks that will grow to get bigger. I would tell my friend he can't hunt if he would shoot a spike buck.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

A spike buck is older than a yearling, but not 2 years old yet. He was a late fawn of the spring before, so the spike is his first rack.
What I mean is this. MOST does are bred in November, their fawns born say in June. Well, a spiker's mom was bred say in late December early January, so he wasn't born till say late July early August. He wasn't able to grow a "rack" the year he was born, so the spike is, for all intent and purposes here, the same as a button buck. We all know that a button can grow a big rack, and so can a spiker.

RE: Here's a question for you!!!
 

Antler growth depends on many factors. I have stated my own deer farm
For sent collecting. I also In the upcomming years will have whitetails for sale. Many of the amish people in my area are also getting into deer farming. I have read many articles on anter growth, some I agree some I dont.

Here is a good one I came accross.

http://pabucks.com/deerantlers.html