Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Well I went to my local gun club to shoot the breeze.........and some trap. There are a couple of guys there that were complaining to others about the deer on the property and how no one should be shooting anything but big bucks......One poor guy was just trying to say that he doesn't care what he gets anymore because he is getting a little long in the tooth and he just loves the fact that he can still get out in the woods..........they layed into him about how he was "ruining" it for everyone else and how he should hunt the way they do.......or not at all. F'THAT!!!! I had heard enough at that point and I lost my temper. The guy they were verbally beating down is one of the nicest older members of the club and I will be darned if I was gonna stand there and say nothing. During the course of my tirade these are the subjects I covered.........most of which, if not all of them were answered with "Wouldn't you rather kill a big buck?" ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!! That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard someone give as a reason to back up a push for QDM.

So here are the questions I posed and maybe the crowd in here has a better answer for me.

1. What is it that makes you feel better about killing a big racked buck? If it is the challenge of taking a uncommon, elusive animal that is harder to hunt and takes more time, skill, dedication, and luck to get........then why on earth would you want that task made easier by increasing the number of big bucks out there?? The reason they are so hard to kill in most areas is a simple numbers game. Theyare so hard to find/hunt because they are very few and far between. Ifit is the challenge you are after then you should want MORE young bucks killed so the big ones will be even more rare and special. If no one kills any small bucks and the woods becomeas full of 120"+ bucks as they are of4 and 6 ptrs then what kind ofchallenge does that pose?

2. Whatis satisfying about shooting a deer that was"grown" into a big racked buck?? I personally know people who own a bunch of property and every year they shoot MONSTERS.........all 3 of them. A guy and his 2 sons. They did not shoot does for 10 years and don't shoot any bucks under 120" To look at his wall of bucks is sure impressive no doubt but those deer have no "trophy"value at all IMO. He spent 2 days in the woods total last year and killed abuck that almost went 170".........wow what a challenge that was. His father and brother killed bucks that bothwere huge. Is it really satisfying to just let a deer grow in your land for 5 years and then one day just decide to whack him and put him on the wall?? I don't seethepoint.

3. Why is it so hard for people to accept that not everyone isfixated on antlers and only antlersas the measuring stick of a successful season or hunt? If you want to chase antlers to the end of the earth and spend every waking hour in search of a bigger racked buck then be my guest.......just don't get bent out of shape wheneveryone doesn't share your obssession. What has happened in the world of deer hunting that hunters are confronted with a guilt trip if they shoot a small buck? What is so hard to understand about just doing what you want and leave other people alone to do what they want. As long as no one is breaking the law and they are being safe it is no one's business to tell them how they should or should not hunt. Worry about yourself.

4. Every place is different........from state to state......county to county........field to field. We all hunt in different places and under different circumstances. Why do people insist on the belief that if they see it and experience it where they hunt that it must be like that everywhere in the world? If you have a private farm where their are bruisers behind every tree and no hunting pressure then just be happy with what you have and enjoy it...........don't talk down to the guy who is out there busting his buns just trying to finda place to hunt in peace and quiet because the deer he killed isn't up to your standards.........shoot what you want and are able to......and be happy for anyone else fortunate to harvest a deer.......even if you would not have.


What am I missing because I just don't see the logic.

Anyone??

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

some people, eh?

this is a topic that can be and is debated everywhere. i think in our world of bigger, faster, stronger, the allure of antlers is the driving force for a lot of hunters. the media doesnt help, in magazines and on tv ya always see the monsters, not the run of the mill animals. size sells. i personally "trophy hunt" quite a bit, but i also meat hunt, and certainly dont look down on those who do. to each his own. reading that made me think of something that happened at work a while back, a co worker was telling of the spike he shot on opening day of rifle season. his thing was he was only after the meat, and ya couldnt eat the antlers. i asked him why he didnt just shoot a doe, he would have got more meat plus helped our local herd, which is WAY out of whack bucks to does. maybe i was wrong in what i said? i wasnt rude about it, and he did at that point realize that he could have got more meat off a doe, but still, was i right or wrong? tough to tell.

i would never attack anybody because they shot something small however, i dont always get the big one myself.

helluva deal you had, and im sorry for that.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I have absoluelty no problem with someone who "trophy" hunts. The part that gets irritating is when they start pushing their own personal agenda on everyone else.

I also don't consider their to be only 2 kinds of hunters........"trophy" or "meat". There is plenty of room on that spectrum in between. I like big bucks as much as the next guy.......it's just not the ONLY thing that appeals to me about hunting. I enjoy so many things about hunting I can't even count them and those feelings are not effected one bit by the size or lack of size of the antlers on the deer I take. I value the meat on a deer more then anything.........I had 600lbs of venison in my freezer this year and I will be out before next season..........but that surely isn't all I think about when I am hunting.........and I certainly would never try to force others to see things my way and/or try to make them feel guilty for being different.

Pretty sad.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I didn't even get thru 2 sentences on the original thread and I'm calling this one at 7 pages before it dies or locks.

Any takers?

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

There are a lot of reasons why people feel a sense of achievment in taking a whitetail and I could name many that others have claimed as theirs. However, I will name 3 of my own. 1, is to feed my family great food. 2, is to server my friends a taste meal that they don't often get else where when they visit me. And 3, I know an old woman who's husband no longer can hunt, because of her health her doctor has reccomended that she, when she does, eat lean meat, venison being a good example. It's a joy to be able to give her some.

These people who derided the old hunter may have been anti hunters, because of your description they meet one of the definitions of their kind. They know they cannot stop people from shooting all deer so they have taken belittling hunters that shoot young ones or who use guided hunts or hunt behind fences or any form of legal hunting. Anyone who derides and belittles a hunter who takes legal game, is an anti hunter. That is not just my .02 cents, it is the definition of a anti hunter.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

This is a touchy subject for some. I for one don't care if you shoot a spike or a 180in + buck. Like I have said before, one mans (or womans) dink is anothers trophy. I say this with the exception that the herd should be healthy. And when I say healthy I mean with a good ratio of bucks to does. Not trophy bucks to does but healthy bucks to does.

If the situation isprime ie: good genetics, food and age, then you might find a brusier if not you may only see a small 6point walk by. Either way I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else what their definition of a "trophy" should be.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

im with u rybohunter... but I give it 6 pages lol

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Here we go again! I hope Datamax doesn't see this one.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I can say that I fall somewhere in the middle of your spectrum between a pure trophy hunter, which by my recogning is one who hunts purelyto mounta body/rack anddoesn't care about consuming the animal, and a puremeat hunter, which cares only about consuming the usable portions of the animal and have no intention of mounting anything. I personally prefer the meat to the antlers, and will shoot at any mature animal that gets within range and presents a clean shot. However, if two deer, one a mature buck with a smallish rack or a doe, and another buck with a larger rack,both presenta good shot, I'll take the large buck. The only type ofhunter that really torques meare the pure trophy hunters who will shoot a buck, capeit out and leavethe rest for the coyotes. If they donatethe meat or give it to their friends/family, then I don't ahve a problem with it.

Mike

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I will try to answer some of your questions.

To start with...

The challenge is a very large part of it. If I were to shoot the first legal buck by I would be lucky to get 2 days of hunting ina year. It only makes sense to pass the buck and set my sights on a mature buck if I want time in the woods. I am not guaranteed to see a mature buck in any given year, although I will see a host of different young bucks. When I was younger I would shoot the yearling bucks. Even when I was a "greenhorn" I was lucky to get through the month of October so I could hunt the November rutwith my buck tag.

I can tell you the exact moment I decided to hunt exclusively for mature bucks. I was sitting in my treestand on a chilly morning the first week of November with onlya doe tag in my fannypack. [/align]It was my first experience with a mature buck in bow range. Watchingthat buck gave me a feeling I had never experienced before while hunting. The buck seemed to have an aura or presence about him that I could feel. I knew I was witnessing something special. That may sound dumb to you but I am being 100% serious. After that experience I became dedicated to become the best and smartest bowhunter that I could. Watching that buck walk awayI knewI would never harvest an immature buck again.[/align]

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Nobodies business what I shoot.If you dont like it ? TUFF I dont care what people think.and I dont care what anyone else shoots

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Buckeye, I will give you credit on this one, that was very well said!!

Like buckeye, I used to shoot the first antler that went by. But now I just sit quietly and hope his older brother will stroll by. It is still a good feeling to watch a 1 1/2 year old buck walk right on by and not even notice you are there. I have only landed 1 buck in the last 4 seasons, but I have filled the freezer with some does.

But like said above, I won't try and force somebody to see things my way. To each their own!!

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I also pass the small bucks in hopes of a big one, but I do not really care what anyone else shoots. I believe it's up to each of us to determine what is a "worthy challenge."

I agree with atlasman. Some of this QDM stuff is being carried too far. If "the challenge is a very big part of" trophy hunting, then trophy hunters should relish the additional challenge provided by fewer big bucks. I know its special for me when I connect with a good one in Nov after passing some decent ones in Oct.

The more folks we have passing on spikes and forkies, the better the hunting will become. It doesn't have to be EVERYone....just many, to make a difference. Lighten up on those guys who shoot dinks. Most of us who pass on the small bucks now went through a phase where we didn't......others' attitudes will change with time and experience as well.

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Well put. I wish more people would adaopt the ideal that everyone hunts differently and we all put our own set of priorities on our hunts. I completely agree with your defense of your old time buddy.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

i would love to get a monster the biggest buck iv gotten was a probably 2 inch button buck and i was the happiest kid in the world. i thought it was a doe then to find out my first deer was a buck! WOOOOOOOOOOOO i was praying for anything.iv shot at the monsters and missed. this year im really gona try not to shoota doe to gun season start or muzzleloader season. if i dont get one then its first come first serve. im happy if i even get a deer let alone a monster.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I too amone of those hunters who also used to kill the first legal buck that walked by my stand.Several years ago, I noticed that the majority of the people in our hunting group often sneered at their own kills, mentioning that their buck was a "scruff" ora "dink".It was comments like these that made me realize that this was disrespectful to the animal if it wasn't something to be proud of, which is why I began encouraging people to begin passing on small, young bucks. (Oddly enough, one of those people lives in Ohio and has killed three monster bucks in the past four years- one of which was a 29 point and netted 195 inches!) As long as the huntergets a chill up his spine when he shoots it, I could care less about the size of the buck he kills. ButDON'T you dare kill something that you're not gonna be proudof. It'snot right to the animal andit's not fair for the rest of thegroup.
I believe that anybody who gets a real rush out of killing a small buck has every right to kill one, as long as it's legal.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

1. Plain and simple they were wrong for giving the feller a hard time on what he does.....some people hunt for meat some for horns....


Now to address the above quote.....It's really funny how you make it sound so simple...I understand some of you hunters here on this site can't and wont let a buck pass because somebody else will most certainly whack it...I can understand that. You simply have no idea how hard it is to to see a 120 inch 2.5 year old and pass him up just hoping he will make it another year, hope that another hunter wont make that harvest, hope that he wont get hit by a car, hope that he wont get poached, hope that mothernature dont take him, simple hope that you see him next year when he makes a mistake... If your lucky enough to play a chess match with all of those factors and your are LUCKY enough to see that same buck when he has grown to his full potential, and he does make a mistake during rut, you had better be ready to check mate...

It is more satisfiying than you can ever imagine to hunt a animal that you have watched and learned from(trust me that buck has learned from your mistakes as well) and be lucky enough to make that shot...

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Last year I shot my first buck ever. I shot it with a percussion muzzelloader. It was a 6 pt and to me a great trophy. I hope to take my first deer with a bow this year. Be it a doe, a button, or a monster, when it falls it will be a trophy to me. I hope I always feel this way.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I have to agree with Buckeye hunter, and I enjoy the woods way too much to shoot a young buck. That don't mean I think it's wrong for someone else to do it. If it makes them happy, I am happy.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

The answer to that question seems to be more elusive than da thirty point buck.

Atlasman , if you evercome toWisconsin give me a holler. We'll go out and get redeyed! The tab is on me!

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Any deer is a trophy with a bow, we get to caught up with antlers size. Remember it's about being out there and the expierence we take home with us, which most of the time is not a deer. It's not a contest of who can put a monster on the wall, it's dosen't mean your better than others, even though it's becoming more and more like this. It's almost like saying who is a better father, one who stays home more with the kids and has little money or the father who is never home but showers his family with expensive gifts. Society in general tells us who or what the perfect father is and our hunting brother and sisters tell us who the ultimate predators are. Is there really a answer to the question, it's up to the person your asking.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

atlasman - I agree with your tirade. And for the exact reasons - each place people hunt is different, and for different reasons, and different challenges. I go to Kansas for big bucks, I like big racked whitetails and I'm spenidng a good chunk of money going, and its part of the agreement I have with the guys out there. Hunt for big bucks only, maximize the experience, have fun for 6 days and try to tag a buck of a lifetime.

But then I also hunt for any legal deer I can in Arkansas, different situations, different reasons for hunting.

1. What is it that makes you feel better about killing a big racked buck?

Well, its horn porn, the need for huge racked bucks on your wall. I have it, everyone has it, its how you deal with it thats the key. I drew a hard to get mule deer tag in Colorado this year. 180" of less and I aint going to be happy with that. i want the expierience of the hunt AND the huge buck. If I don't get the buck ? I got the experience, which is the main thing anyway. But I want the buck too - does that make sense ?

2. Whatis satisfying about shooting a deer that was"grown" into a big racked buck??

Horn porn. Its what makes game farms NOT hunting, and high fenced big ranches less challenging. Guided hunts can be added to that too .......... paying someone to literally do almost all the work so you can shoot the horns.

3. Why is it so hard for people to accept that not everyone isfixated on antlers and only antlersas the measuring stick of a successful season or hunt?

We all have a love of horns. I think thats a universal true with hunters. However, the guys you described are seriously missing almost every part and aspect of the Hunt and only desire the kill and the horns - horn porn. Its NOT a good thing to be like that.



Lets face it. Big bucks are rarely singled out and hunted and killed. I'd hazard to say95% or more of the time its sheer blind luck that a guy shoots a monster buck. 4% of the time its because the guy seriously hunts hard, % I'd say is the guys who KNOW big bucks and hunt them individually.

So building on what you said ............. how can guys feel so good about having complete blind luck fall on them ??

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Someone in NY or WI passing a young buck don't make a bit of difference for me or anyone else hunting here in Ohio or the rest of the country. Someone in SE Ohio passing the young bucks does not increase the number of big bucks on my farms that I hunteither. Others passing the bucks does not make it easier, you make it sound like if a few guys start passing young bucks that there will be a mature buck behind every tree.

I don't understand how you can say this in one breath and shoot 4-5 month old fawns in the next. Is it really that satisfying to kill 4-5 month old fawns? You see it really isn't fair for meto say that, asyour anglereally isn't fair to us either. Neither actually represents what we do.

Nothing you, I or anyone else says is going to sway the way we feel. I am passionate about the way I do things as are you. Good luck this fall.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Well said buckeye!

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Seems like such a simple philosophy.........yet it escapes so many people.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

That is pretty weird........I think it is like a defense mechanism for those that are very insecure and afraid of what others will think or say........by throwing out the first insult they figure others will not feel the need to repeat it. Kinda like a fat guy saying he is fat.


I have killed a bunch of deer over the last 17 years.............and I am so thankful that my heart still pounds like a jackhammer when I see deer coming..........no matter what they are. I pray I never reach the point where only a huge racked buck stirs those feelings inside me.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

I see it every year with my own eyes.........the guy I spoke of earlier and his brother and dad already have bucks in mind for next year that they let go this year because they hadn't "grown" enough. I don't see how passing on a deer one season and then killing him the next makes it any more of an accomplishment. He was dumb enough to get killed for 4 years and is only alive because you let him pass...........yet when he gets whacked at 5 1/2 he is heralded as a crafty, elusive, almost mythical beast...........no.......he is the same deer you could have whacked 10 times over the last 4 years and just let him walk because his rack was too small.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Your problem atlas is that for as much complaining as you do about others "forcing" thier views, you cannot see any views other than your own as well. You'll argue just as much with guys who have realized its not a big deal to them to shoot a small buck anymore the same as you would with hardcore "everything must be 5 1/2 years before we think about shooting it" guys. YOU have no middle ground.
The vast majority of guys I see are middle of the road. They hold out for nicer bucks, wish others would too, but aren't going to lynch anyone for squeezing the trigger. If they so much as suggest it to others to follow suit, they are the devil incarnate forcing thier views on people.
Jimbohunter's comments are not weird at all. When I came to the relaization that I would shoot a buck every year, without much effort, and not be too proud of how big it was, I stopped doing so. If abuck doesn't make you proud, you shouldn't shoot it.

And just as you pray that your heart pounding excitement never stops when you see any deer coming, I am thankful that mine has......and neither one of us are right or wrong.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Interesting take..........considering I have already said the following in this very thread.


and


I didn't view the way these guys were behaving as "suggesting" anything.

I didn't mean his comment was weird.........I menat it is weird that someone would shoot something and then stand there and degrade their own harvest.

Are you proud of the does you shoot??

Why are you "thankful" that you are no longer excited when you see deer?

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Interesting..... I see morediscussions on these forums where people are telling "trophy" huntersthey are wrong than I do the other way around. I have seen a few say that shooting young deer is wrong but the true sportsman don't "push" their thoughts onto others.

It seems that atlasman is more interested in arguing everyones points rather than understand their reasoning as he suggested in hisoriginal post. We will never completely understand each other.

I don't call myself a "trophy" hunter but I am selective in what I shoot. I don't hunt "trophy" deer but mature deer.My reasons why are similiar to what others have already said:
-I enjoy spending time in the woods and shooting the first 1 1/2 year old buck that walked by would only take a few days.
- I enjoy the entire whitetail experience and can get just as much satisfaction from watching the young bucks as I would shooting one.I have said this before but my 11 year old son has seen deer sparring, seen bucks chasing does, seen several bucks make scrapes, seen bucks make does stand up to scent checkthem,seen deer bed down 40 yards from our stand etc.... Most of these experiences would not have happened if we had flung an arrow at the first deer to walk by. For me it's not all about the kill like it is with many hunters who feel unsuccesful if they don't shoot something. Now of courseareas with low deer densities may change everything and being selective is not an option but it's not like that where I live.
- There is no comparison with the adrenalin rush during an encounter with a mature buck compared to a doe or young buck! None!

Most people who are selective or practice QDM are not simply "letting them grow" to whack them whenever they want. It's about setting a personal standards and goalsand then getting satisfaction when they are achieved. I have several trail cam pics of a nice 2 1/2 year old buck last year and he walked right by my stand once. I found out he was shot by a gun hunter in an adjacent woods. I heard it was a youth hunter and couldn't be happier for him. I will continue to pass on similiar deer knowing they are not likely to make it through gun season because I have no desire to shoot a young one. I get more satisfaction from passing on a buck knowing that 90% of the hunters out there would have taken a shot at him. atlas you will probably never understand but thats OK and that makes us all individuals.

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

You say those people that shoot their big bucks within 2 days was no challenge, then what is shooting the first buck that walks along, if that was the way to go i would have had 7 small bucks on the first day last year. I dont care what anyone else shoots, but you ask why is it hard to accept the fact that not everyone is fixated with antlers. Most people could care aless what anyone else shoots! What makes me happy shooting a bigger deer, is trying to get a bigger one each year. I no longer get enjoyment from shooting small young bucks, compared to a mature buck that is twice as smart and more of a challenge. If i shot the first deer that walked by, my season would end shortly, what a challenge that would be.

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You are a real work of art........ You first ask for peoples opinions, and they offer in good will, THEN you want to argue with them for what the offer in a simple opinion.. talk about a waste of bandwidth!!!

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Atlas, for the record, I knew what you meant. I must admit that I had to read it twice but I knew what you were saying...

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I just back spaced over many hundreds of words because I decided it is more important to me to look for things that we can agree on than things we may never likely agree on!
For me this is a very simple matter,as a hunter as a steward of the land and game am I contributing toward the over all health and well being of the animals I am hunting or am I detracting from it?
For any of you that have read my posts previously you know where I stand on this issue.Regardless of my views I would never belittle anyone!

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Atlas

You are not and will never be a trophy hunter...and thats O.K. dude..........

How many years and how many thousands of words are we going to have to deal with before YOU are comfortable accepting this fact.

Lighten up, have fun and shoot the other monster on your mountain;)

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Did you miss my statement that I have no problem with the way anyone hunts as long as it is safe and legal?? What ruffles my feathers is when I see guys belittling others like these guys were doing. I couldn't care less if every other hunter holds out for a buck over 200" every year............just don't tell me or anyone else that we should be doing the same.

So if a mature buck walks by 15 minutes into the season you won't shoot him because you wouldn't want to lose out on the entire whitetail experience?

They have a name for that.........it's called buck fever.

How else would you describe letting a deer walk by when you could have killed it just because his rack isn't big enough...........and then killing that same deer next year? He is not alive because of his elusiveness or keen instincts.....he's alive because you let him be.........and when his rack grows big enough you stop letting him walk by.

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EXACTLY.

Many people have said here already that shooting the first deer that walks by would be no challenge at all right??

Well what happens when that first one is a monster?? It is still no challenge then right and everyone would pass on him too because their is no challenge in shooting the first buck you see right?

RE: Couple questions for "Trophy" hunters
 

Not by your definition of "trophy" ;)


I am as comfortable as can be..........my Goliath has tons of room and I even added a cup holder for my coffee last year. :)

I couldn't possibly have more fun when I hunt............and that mountain is shot man. I didn't even go there last year. The local farmer at the top of the hill stopped planting corn for some reason and the deer have no reason to climb up there anymore. 11 guys went there for opening week of gun season and saw 1 deer in 7 days between all of them. I went back in January to hunt squirrels and saw one lonely set of tracks all day in the snow. If a new food source is not put back at the top of that hill that place is a ghost town...........it's a shame.

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The difference is, if it is a large mature buck, you will probualy NEVER see that deer again, and should consider it luck that you get an oppurtunity like that. If you want to shoot anything moving thats fine, but dont try to say there is no challenge in shooting a large buck on day one, that is ignorant. Whoever said they see more people dissing trophy hunters instead of the other way around was right.