DIY_guy

There actually is a “most lethal” broadhead out there, Its one that flies true from your bow and is placed in the vitals of the game you are hunting. Accuracy first. It has to hit what you are aiming at (this requires you to shoot them preseason to verify) Then it has to be razor sharp and of good construction. If that describes your broadhead, it is the most lethal broadhead available.

rockport

I think the toxics are what you get when you have something people spend a lot of money on (broadheads) and that has long been already perfected.

I think a broadhead should offer just the right mixture of penetration and cutting surface but that combination was discover long ago with simple 3-4 blade heads.

Now it seems more about reinventing the wheel to make money.

Slick trick,Muzzy,thunderhead,G5 montec etc........they already got it right and are hard to compete with on the market so companies have to come up with heads like the toxic.

stalkingbear

Rockport-have you ever seen the blood trail the Toxic leaves with good placement? Since I started using them I have better blood trails than anything I've ever used. I've tried most of the different configurations over the years too. It looks like somebody walked along slashing blood out of a bucket with a good hit with the Toxics. You really should try them some time personally before dismissing them as gimmicky. If you have tried them personally I apologize.

rockport

Were you having trouble tracking well hit deer before?

What has your biggest or most occurring problem shooting deer with a bow?

I bet blood trails on well hit deer is not even in the conversation. Penetration is a much bigger issue assuming you hit the font half of the deer.

I assure you a toxic broadhead won't leave as good of a blood trail with only a high entrance wound and lodged in the far shoulder as a simple broadhead will penetrating that far shoulder.

Shooting from a tree and not penetrating that far shoulder is a much bigger problem than the amount of blood from a well hit deer.

Not penetrating the back shoulder is simply a way bigger cause of lost deer than not enough blood on well hit deer.

I bet you have never in your life lost a deer that had both lungs popped and a pass through and the best design to get both of those things is a simple fixed head.

stalkingbear

As a matter of fact the blood trails ARE a lot heavier and my preferred shot is low lung/heart so the arrow nails the bottom of both lungs and the top of the heart between. High placed shots are always going to be harder to track because more blood stays in the body cavity instead of draining. I have had several complete pass throughs using Toxic since they came out. Not only do I keep whatever broadhead I'm using scary sharp, but I also go to the extra length of costing the head with petroleum jelly to keep the blades from rusting. I get called several times every year to help find lost deer, so I've tracked a quite a lot of deer over the years, both mine and other people's deer. The more blood trail you have, the better. This becomes crucial when trailing an animal in rain or other conditions where blood trail has diminished or harder to see. My questions stands-have you ever personally tried them before condemning them?

rockport

No I haven't tried them. I don't need to run out and try every new broadhead with a huge "cutting surface" to know what that causes to happen.

Now my questions stand as well.

1. How many well hit deer have you seen lost from lack of a blood trail?

2. How many deer have you seen lost from lack of penetration causing only an entry wound?

The broadhead industry addresses things based on marketing. We see it year after year just on this forum alone. People will lose deer every year because they used a broadhead with to much cutting surface and didn't get a pass through and the only wound on the animal is a high entry wound.

What we won't see is people losing animals because they put a broadhead with a moderate cutting surface plum through the vitals of an animal and didn't get plenty of blood to track that animal.

What we will see is people losing animals because their broadheads with a huge cutting surface got lodged in the far shoulder......and we will see it over and over again.

Blood trails on well hit deer has never been a problem and certainly not a problem worth the trade off of getting less penetration. Its all about maketing and sometimes the truth is boring and doesn't sell.

stalkingbear

I don't know when you started bowhunting rockport, but in the 40 years or so that I've been a bowhunter, almost all broadheads (and products in general) are designed better than they was then. Back then we didn't have the vast variety of stuff to choose from we do now. As a matter of fact I have not been able to recover 4 deer over the years that the blood trail tapered down and it was raining pretty good before I was ever asked to help find the deer. If you would try different stuff you would have a more educated better opinion about the different products on the market. I make it a point to try as much different stuff that I can afford to in order to know 1st hand exactly what I'm talking about on products, instead of forming an opinion not based on facts or experience. In that way when I tell a customer about something I've used and whether I can recommend it or not based on actual experience. I can offer them honest experienced recommendations on if a certain thing is going to work good or not. Sure I go through a lot that way and never recover the expense but it's worth it in the long run. You go ahead about your merry way inside the bubble and pretend you know about stuff when you haven't even touched it, and I'll go about mine. I'll even let you win the argument, cause I'm bowing out of the thread-say what you want. But the world is still not flat!

rockport

You could have at least made an attempt to counter my actual points.

I need to try these about like I need to try thinner toilet paper. The very concept of the design is to give me more of what I don't need more of(cutting surface) by robbing from what I would like to have more of(penetration)

I'll try new heads if they make sense. Ive tried Montecs, slick tricks, and several more well made and well designed heads that make sense. They are great heads There are lots of well made simple heads on the market.....hints why companies choose to reinvent the wheel instead of just compete directly.

I shoot thunderheads because they have always worked the best for me. Strong arguments could be made for several other heads like the ones I mentioned above. However reality is outside of completely missing the vitals of the deer the leading cause of lost deer is penetration issues.

Ive not seen one deer in my life shot in the vitals get lost because the whole wasn't big enough.....Ive seen a ton of deer get lost because there wasn't sufficient penetration.

Just answer the one question

Outside of completely missing the vital area on the deer what reasons have you seen lead to the most lost deer?

super_hunt54

Well Rock, Like SB, I used to get called a lot to help track deer and like you I have found that MOST of the hard to track deer have been from poor penetration or marginal hits nicking the liver or some such. BUT, there have been quite a few that I had a hard time finding because of those 2 blade expandable heads that just sealed right up. Lot of people like those heads because they get accuracy alongside of their field tips. Sometimes those heads lay a deer open really well while other times those up and down slices just fat seal up and don't leak at all. Deer still died but without a trail they can be a mite difficult to find. So yes I have seen several deer that were really hard to track even with perfect passthrough lung shots. But never from a 3 blade or one of those hybrid jobs with bleeder blades. Those holes don't fat seal.

SB you've been in the woods a long time and should know better than to take out the heart with Bow! Lung shots! You then don't have to wait for the cavity to fill up before leaking blood leaving a trail! No heart=nothing pumping blood! Lung shots give you good spray every time they try to breath. Plus, I've found they go down much quicker from double lung and for some odd reason they tend to circle more so than straight flat out run when lung hit. Never have figured out why but danged if I haven't seen it happen a lot.

rockport

I get accuracy out of almost every broadhead. I haven't always known how to do that though so I get it.

I have never used expandables and never will. Much like the toxic it just doesn't make sense to me. The vast majority of lost deer from my experience(again outside of plum missing the vitals) are from lack of penetration and these braodheads give you less of that by their very design in order to give you more of something that has more to do with the "cool factor" than actual functionality. You put a simple Thunderhead,Muzzy,slick trick,montec etc. Through both lungs and out the other side and its over. There is no need to further compromise penetration.


The thunderhead razors fly well, penetrate well, and leave ample amounts of blood.

Slender tip, 1 1/8 cut,3 offset blades.

Best broadhead on the market IMO but there are a lot of good ones.