A tale of four bows…..
11-20-2007, 06:17 AM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
A tale of four bows…..
A tale of four bows…..
It has been quite awhile since I really had the desire to do a bow report. My last report was on the Bowtech Old Glory and bow design has come a long way in the last few years especially with regard to Bowtech and Diamond. This past year I had the privilege to own and shoot the Bowtech Guardian and Commander and the Diamond Black Ice. Each bow possesses some unusual combinations of design and shooting characteristics. Each was also a pure dream to shoot. Out of those three bows I have to say that my favorite was the Diamond Black Ice. Making that determination is just not as easy as looking at specification on a piece of paper or even test firing each bow down at the shop. My decision was based on months of shooting each bow and toting at least two of them into the deer woods this fall. The Black Ice’s overall feel in my hand while both trekking through the woods and during the shot are a perfect combination of portability and smooth shooting. The bow’s balance and shooting characteristics really feel “just right” to me. I love picking the bow up. It just feels solid and fun to shoot.
Enter the 2008 production year and a whole new crop of bows from Diamond and Bowtech. Half way through this hunting season Bowtech released their new product line for 2008. In it are a variety of bows to turn most folk’s heads. At the top of the list are some real barn-burners in the 82nd and 101st Airborne. Both of these bows display some of the typical features found on many of today’s bows…parallel limbs, long risers, etc… to help promote low levels of recoil. However, they also have some new features in the roller-style cable guard and shortstop string suppressor. They are also two of the fastest bows on the planet with IBO speeds in excess of 330 and 340 fps respectively. It should come as somewhat of a surprise then as I chose neither bow to review here. Instead I chose another of Bowtech’s 2008 offerings, the General.
The General is a short, 31 inch, axle to axle length bow with a very generous, 8.5 inch brace height. It furthers the technology that Bowtech introduced last year in the Center Pivot limb design. This design provides for an extra support “strut” from the bow’s riser to the center of the limb. The thought behind this is that it provides extra support and more equal stress distribution over the entire limb. From personal experience it also greatly reduces vibration and noise levels. Both the Guardian and Commander were two of the quietest bows I have ever shot and vibration levels truly have reached a new low. Believe me when I say that the General takes this to an even lower level. It does it through a variety of different improvements. Lets look at each of them.
Shortstop tring suppressor and roller cable guard on the General.
First, the General has limbs that are actually beyond parallel at brace. At full draw the limbs actually pivot even closer together. Second, like the Airborne models, the General utilizes the roller cable guard and Shortstop string suppressor. The latter does an excellent job at reducing string twang and significantly deadening overall bow vibration during the shot. It is also fully adjustable and quite replaceable. Third, both this version of the Binary Cam and the bow’s 8.5 inch brace height promote a super smooth and forgiving draw cycle. Though this does sacrifice a bit of speed compared to a bow like the Guardian it also creates a super quiet and smooth shooting bow. You really have to shoot it to appreciate it. Shooting it directly against the Black Ice really makes you understand what an eye-opener this bow is. There is no comparison between the two in terms of recoil or vibration levels and that is saying quite a bit when you consider how well the Black Ice handles both categories.
A look at the center track binary cam on the General.
The General also has a few other accuracy enhancing characteristics going for it. For starters the Center Pivot Design itself provides the bow with a more neutral riser geometry. Since a bow’s geometry is determined by where the back of the grip is in relation to the limb pockets the General has a fairly “straight” design. The center pivot effectively moves the limb/limb pocket contact point back further up the limb. This makes the bow much more difficult to torque and therefore provides a more inherently accurate design. In addition, the bow’s mass weight is also a bit heavier than other models in its class. This extra weight provides the shooter with an immediately more stable platform to shoot from. The combination of weight and the center pivot design are a potent combination for accuracy. More on that later.
Enough on the General for now let us look at the other bows in this comparison. From the Diamond lineup I chose two new models … the Marquis and “The Rock”. Both of these models are new introductions into the Diamond lineup.
The Marquis is similar to the Black Ice in overall design with a longer riser and slightly more aggressive cam design. It features the same roller guard and Shortstop string suppressor as the General but is of the more conventional long riser/parallel limb design. Overall balance on this model is very good with a somewhat top heavy feel. The bow feels somewhat reminiscent of one of the previous Bowtech offerings, the Patriot VFT. The difference is that the Marquis has a slimmer grip, more parallel limbs and an overall better shot feel. The shot feel is very much like the General in this regard. Noise levels are exceptionally low and the bow displays next to no recoil during the shot. It does exhibit slightly more vibration than the General but it is still significantly less than the average bow. The surprising aspect of this is how fast the bow is throwing arrows. As mentioned, the Marquis is quiet and practically recoil/vibration free but it is also capable of generating some screaming arrow speeds. My bow arrived with a birth certificate of 324 feet per second at IBO specs. This model would make an excellent 3D bow in my opinion because of its combination of speed and inherent accuracy. Ofcourse, it would also be an excellent model to hunt with if you are expecting the need for longer range shots when you do not have the time or convenience to pull out a rangefinder. The bow is very stable at full draw because of the solid back wall and the bow’s long riser.
Shortstop string suppressor and Rollerguard on the Marquis.
“The Rock” is Diamond’s mid-priced bow typically retailing right around the $400 price point. The head-turning aspect of this model is that it combines some very attractive characteristics at that price point.[/b] One example of this would be the very respectable speed rating of 310-318 fps but with a 7 inch brace height to boot. Two, though not as parallel in design as the Marquis or Black Ice it does offer more of a parallel limb design than other bows currently on the market. This does help to significantly cut down on overall felt recoil compared to many other bows I have shot in recent years. Third, the overall weight of the bow is exceptionally low. Compared to the Black Ice, Marquis or General it feels like the Rock weighs about half as much. Also, because of its’ slightly more conventional riser/limb design the bow also feels much more compact than any of the other models. I feel like I could put this bow in my back pocket and forget it is there.
Last but not least is the Diamond Black Ice. As I mentioned earlier I have been shooting this bow for most of the past year and had chosen it as my primary hunting bow for the 2007 season. As I attempted to relate earlier this bow possesses the perfect combination of weight, length, geometric design, shot feel, speed and accuracy for my typical hunting excursions. I truly enjoy picking this bow up and shooting it. Recoil, noise and vibration levels on this bow are much better than average. Speed is very respectable though not as ‘barn-buring” as the Airborne models. Accuracy, in my hands, is very good in large part because of the combination of the long riser and 7.5+ brace height. Also attractive is the bow’s draw cycle. It is very consistent without a “ramp up” to peak weight or a sudden drop-off into a short valley. This model has also survived a very important “test”. It continues to remain in the Diamond lineup for the 2008 model year. In this day and age of constant improvements that says a lot about a bow not to mention one at the front of the company’s lineup.
Vibration:
[/b][/b]
The General was the clear winner here in my opinion. The vibration level on this bow really has to be felt (or not felt as it is) to be believed. The only issue this bow controls better is recoil. More on that later. The Marquis and Black Ice are pretty much tied for second in this category. The Marquis might be slightly better but I think it is an issue for debate. Both bows deliver unusually low levels of vibration with my typical hunting setup. The Rock is not far behind in this category either. If not for its lighter than average weight I would expect it to be right in with the Marquis and Black Ice in its level of felt vibration. Again, this can also probably be attributed in large part to the factory installed Hush Kit.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Center track support "strut".
Recoil:
[/b][/b]
This category ranking pretty much went hand in hand with the vibration one. The General displayed literally no recoil during the shot. The Marquis was almost as good but still has the ever so slightest bit of lower limb “kick” found on a single cam bow. Most folks would find it as non-existent as the General in this regard but after having shot many single cam bows in recent years I still tend to pick up on it. The Black Ice faired much the same with very little noticeable recoil. The Rock displayed a bit more than the Black Ice but by no means was “bad” in the grand scheme of things. I would most certainly rate it as “low” especially considering how lightweight of a bow it is.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Accuracy:
[/b][/b]
This is a difficult category to pick one bow over another because, in many cases, the individual’s personal shooting style and preferences come into play. Because of this reason paper specifications can also be misleading. What one person finds “forgiving” in a bow’s nature might be just the opposite for someone else. A perfect example of this would be the size and feel of the valley of the draw cycle. Some shooters actually shoot better with a shorter, more abrupt valley because it forces them to focus more on their shot sequence. Others find a short valley distracting because they cannot focus on other issues that they may deem more important. Despite these issues I am going to attempt to qualify my justifications in ranking bows in this category.
At this time the Black Ice is shooting the most accurate for me. My explanation for this is simply that I have been shooting this particular bow the longest and have become accustomed to the draw cycle, shot feel, etc… The Marquis should, theoretically, provide the most stable shooting platform because it is not only the longest bow overall but also has the longest riser (think weight distribution). I found it to be very accurate in my hands but not significantly more than any of the other models here in the review.
The General was a bit of a surprise. I tend to have to force myself to focus a bit harder to hold shorter bows steadier. This is, in some part, the result of the bow’s shorter axle to axle length and thus the ease with which you can cant these models. It is also the result of how lightweight many of these models are. The General, on the other hand, does a fantastic job at addressing both of these “issues”. For one, though the bow is short at around 31 inches most of the length really is in the bow’s riser. That means that the weight is more evenly distributed over the full length of the bow thus offering greater stability. What also comes into play here is the Center Pivot design. It helps to greatly reduce vertical torque thus making it much easier to be consistent with your grip. Lastly, the bow’s physical weight is close to four and a half pounds. For a bow this short that is fairly heavy. What the weight does in this case is provide a very stable shooting platform.
The Rock also shoots surprisingly well despite how short and light it is. I had no problem holding the bow steady enough at full draw to stack arrow quite consistently at 20 yards. I am going to attribute a lot of that to the bow’s solid back wall and very ergonomic grip. It allowed me to consistently draw and anchor to the same spot without any difficulty. The light weight of the bow did make it a bit more difficult to hold as steady as the General and or Marquis but, as with many issues it is a simple tradeoff.
Ranking:
1. Black Ice
2. General
3. Marquis
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Speed:
[/b][/b]
I have left this issue to the end for one simple reason. Though Bowtech initially made its mark in the industry with its barn-burning speed numbers it is not one of the primary characteristics that I look for in their bows. Do not get me wrong, their bows continue to put out some really impressive speeds but with my draw length running above average I do not typically have to worry about an IBO speed rating as a primary reason to choose a bow. With that thought in mind I readily admit that I did not even chrono last year’s models. However, for the sake of the report and for an interest in comparison I decided to chrono the four models in this review.
Speeds were all obtained with a size 1 (30 inch draw length) module installed on each bow. A size 2 (29 inch) module was installed on the Rock as a size 1 was unavailable at the time of testing. Estimated adjusted speeds for a 30 inch draw length will be in parentheses. Each bow was set to a 65 pound draw weight. String accessories included a 3-way Shurz a Peep peep sight, string loop and tied-in nockset. Four arrows of differing weights were shot through each bow to obtain a range of performance. Each bow was shot 3 times through two different chronographs. An average was then obtained based on those speeds. Rankings and attained speeds are listed below:
562 gr. alum. 505 gr. alum. 423 gr. carbon 382 gr. carbon
General 231 243 262 276
Marquis 240 253 271 285
Black Ice 236 248 266 279
The Rock 235(245) 247(257)265(275)278(288)
1. The Rock
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. General
Value:
[/b][/b]
Here is a tough category to elaborate on since “value” is such a subjective term. One person might immediately look at the price tag of each bow and then pick the least expensive model because it will take a whitetail just as effectively as the most expensive model. Another person will pull one characteristic from the list because they have found it to be the most important one for their hunting style and then find the bow ranked highest for that category. Still another may take the bow with highest combined rankings and compare it with a more expensive model from another company claiming it offers the best value in comparison.
I leave that decision up to you folks as I am torn in that I look at this issue in all the ways mentioned above.
After Thoughts:
[/b][/b]
I received the three 2008 model bows halfway through our archery season this year. After setting each one up and shooting them daily for a week or two I decided to tote each one of them out for at least one hunt during our regular season. I wanted to get a feel for how each bow not only handled under hunting conditions but also what impressions they left in comparison to the other bows. After following through with my intentions here are my “after thoughts”.
General:[/b]
[/b]
The two issues that struck me the most with this bow were the draw cycle and the physical weight. The former proved to be a dream in two situations where I had the opportunity to draw on game. In both cases the bow proved so effortless to draw back that I was surprised enough in a stressful situation to notice. Two thumbs up on the draw cycle with this bow.
On the negative side of things the bow’s physical weight difference compared to the Black Ice and The Rock were definitely noticeable. There were one or two occasions where I would have been happier carrying a lighter bow especially when you see the hills that I was climbing.
[/b]
[/b]The Binary Cam found the General.
[/b]
Black Ice:
[/b]
As I mentioned earlier I have a bit of a soft spot in my heart for this bow when it comes to hunting. For me it provides the perfect blend of balance, feel and performance that I have yet to really discover in any other bow I have tried. It is a bit early to see if any of the other three bows in this review will take its place as it has left some pretty big shoes to fill.
Hunting with it for most of this season did not diminish that impression one bit. I found it effortless to tote around and to use while on stand. I used it both in a treestand (climber and hang-on) as well as inside a ground blind. In each situation the bow performed entirely to my expectations.
The Black Ice's single cam.
Marquis:[/b]
[/b]
This bow left me with a favorable impression in the hunting environment. Though not quite as compact as the other bows I did not feel like I was overburdened carrying this bow around. There were probably one or two occasions this season where this bow’s extra bit of performance would have come in handy when I did not have the time to accurately determine distance to the target with my rangefinder. I really would not have any issue using this bow in just about any hunting situation. To add to that I plan on using this bow primarily as my 3D bow this off season. It has the perfect combination of speed and forgiveness to make it ideal for that application.
The Marquis single cam.
The Rock:
[/b][/b]
This bow is a perfect example of why we cannot always rely on ranking systems such as the one I used in this comparative review. If you look at my rankings you will see that The Rock rolled in last in almost every category. That gives the impression that the bow is not up to snuff in comparison to the other models. This could not be further from the truth. This bow really showed its worth out in the field. Its lightweight and compact size made it a true dream to use in any situation I could throw at it….ground blind, treestand, toting it up a large hill. You name the situation and I will tell you that it was easy to use it in. If you do not seriously consider this bow because of its fairly modest price or because it isn’t quite as “cutting edge” as some of the other bows discussed here then you are doing yourself a serious disservice.
The Rock's single cam.
Nitpicks/improvements:[/b]
[/b]
Let me start this section off by saying that I really enjoy shooting all four bows and appreciate the fact that I have the ability to do so. I would not have a problem using any of the bows extensively for hunting in just about any type of situation. Keep this in mind as I go through and offer some suggestions as to what I would improve.
Black Ice:[/b]
Let us start off with the easiest one for me. I have been shooting this one the longest so it is the easiest for me to go back and critique. I really do not have much negative to say about it. I would like to see the new roller guard/shortstop string suppressor added to the design. It actually surprises me a little that Bowtech/Diamond did not incorporate this at the same time as the Marquis was introduced. It seems like a natural progression to me though I can see why they may not have. Introducing a new flagship bow is easier if it offers some noticeable improvements over the previous year’s flagship model. Still, I have a hard time believing the Black Ice is going to leave the lineup any time soon. It just has too many things going for it and is too good of a seller from my experience. Adding the roller guard/string suppressor would make an already great bow even better. I would love to see how this bow would feel with this addition.
Marquis:[/b]
[/b]
What I had expected with this bow before handling it was that it basically was just a Black Ice but a bit longer overall. It is to some extent and it is not. It does have the same long riser/parallel limb design but that is pretty much where the similarities end. The cam is different and it feels a little stiffer while drawing. The riser is longer on the Marquis and the balance/feel is entirely different. Speaking of which, that would probably be my only issue with the Marquis. As I mentioned earlier in this review it feels much like some of the older Bowtech single cams and thus a bit top heavy in overall weight distribution. This is not necessarily a bad thing but when I handle it next to the Black Ice or The Rock then it is decisively noticeable. Couple this with the fact that it is a bit heavier than my average bow of late. I am accustomed to something in the 3.5 to 4 pound range and this bow tips the scales at close to 4.5 pounds. A modest diet (more cuts in the riser) or just better weight distribution would be my suggestion here.
I also noticed a potential issue with fletching clearance on this bow. I use 4 inch Norway Duravanes on my hunting arrows. While using either a whisker biscuit or typical prong rest like the GKF Golden Premier it seems like the fletchings pass quite close to the closest cable. I am able to achieve clearance but I wonder if some other folks with high profile vanes may run into some trouble
The Rock:
[/b][/b]
This one is somewhat difficult to critique. With the other three bows you are paying top dollar for their designs. This bow is targeted more for the mid-price market so it seems somewhat petty to expect more from it. Yet, I do. Probably the only negative I could come up with though is the felt recoil/vibration in the shot. As I tried to relate earlier it is not “bad” by any stretch of the imagination. However, after shooting it next to the other three you really get a feeling for how much bow design has been refined over the last two or three years. This bow’s design is definitely more parallel in nature than its predecessor, the Rapture, but I would like to see it stretched just a bit further to see if more of that recoil could be eliminated.
The General:[/b]
[/b]
I took this one hunting a bit more than the other two new models so I got a bit better feel for what I liked and what I did not like in a hunting situation. My biggest suggestion for this bow is to reduce the mass weight. It was also my biggest suggestion for the Guardian and Commander last year. I realize there is probably going to be marginally more weight because of the Center Pivot arm/design but I would like to see if these bows could be revised just a bit more to get them down closer to right at, or maybe a hair below, the four pound range. It was really only the bow’s weight that made me a little hesitant in placing it above the Black Ice as my favorite bow to take out hunting.
Another suggestion might seem a bit nitpicky but since it is something that nagged at me I thought I would mention it. While hunting on the ground and laying the bow down on the ground on a few occasions I managed to get some dirt stuck in there around the limb bolt. Not a big deal if I use some type of bow stand in the blind or if I was hunting a treestand with a preset bow hook but in some cases I did not use either. With that situation in mind I would like to see some type of encasement surrounding the limb bolt area to protect and support that bolt section a bit better. Though I have never had a problem with support in this area I think providing protection at a critical location such as this would make sense. Now this may seem to run somewhat contradictory to my suggestion of reducing weight but I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of the latter for peace of mind.
Lastly, I also noticed a possible issue with fletching clearance on this bow too. It offered essentially the same amount of clearance as the Marquis. In other words just enough for my fletching. I will have to look at this issue further as time allows.
Conclusion:
[/b][/b]
So, there you have it, as unbiased a review from a corporate staff shooter as you are going to find. Keep in mind that though I consider myself fairly well educated I have no expertise in the engineering side of things. My comments and suggestions are simply based on one person’s interpretation based on a lot of experience owning and shooting a variety of bows from many companies. I am not certified in anything and do not pretend to be anything other than an average Joe who really has a passion for bowhunting and an obsession with much of the gear that today dominates our sport. Nowhere else do I receive the enjoyment that I get from sitting on a whitetail stand on a crisp fall morning or from tinkering with a rest or setup endlessly until I get it just the way I want it. Keep those thoughts in mind when you back and read/reread this review. I had a blast putting it together and hope you folks got something from it.
It has been quite awhile since I really had the desire to do a bow report. My last report was on the Bowtech Old Glory and bow design has come a long way in the last few years especially with regard to Bowtech and Diamond. This past year I had the privilege to own and shoot the Bowtech Guardian and Commander and the Diamond Black Ice. Each bow possesses some unusual combinations of design and shooting characteristics. Each was also a pure dream to shoot. Out of those three bows I have to say that my favorite was the Diamond Black Ice. Making that determination is just not as easy as looking at specification on a piece of paper or even test firing each bow down at the shop. My decision was based on months of shooting each bow and toting at least two of them into the deer woods this fall. The Black Ice’s overall feel in my hand while both trekking through the woods and during the shot are a perfect combination of portability and smooth shooting. The bow’s balance and shooting characteristics really feel “just right” to me. I love picking the bow up. It just feels solid and fun to shoot.
Enter the 2008 production year and a whole new crop of bows from Diamond and Bowtech. Half way through this hunting season Bowtech released their new product line for 2008. In it are a variety of bows to turn most folk’s heads. At the top of the list are some real barn-burners in the 82nd and 101st Airborne. Both of these bows display some of the typical features found on many of today’s bows…parallel limbs, long risers, etc… to help promote low levels of recoil. However, they also have some new features in the roller-style cable guard and shortstop string suppressor. They are also two of the fastest bows on the planet with IBO speeds in excess of 330 and 340 fps respectively. It should come as somewhat of a surprise then as I chose neither bow to review here. Instead I chose another of Bowtech’s 2008 offerings, the General.
The General is a short, 31 inch, axle to axle length bow with a very generous, 8.5 inch brace height. It furthers the technology that Bowtech introduced last year in the Center Pivot limb design. This design provides for an extra support “strut” from the bow’s riser to the center of the limb. The thought behind this is that it provides extra support and more equal stress distribution over the entire limb. From personal experience it also greatly reduces vibration and noise levels. Both the Guardian and Commander were two of the quietest bows I have ever shot and vibration levels truly have reached a new low. Believe me when I say that the General takes this to an even lower level. It does it through a variety of different improvements. Lets look at each of them.
Shortstop tring suppressor and roller cable guard on the General.
First, the General has limbs that are actually beyond parallel at brace. At full draw the limbs actually pivot even closer together. Second, like the Airborne models, the General utilizes the roller cable guard and Shortstop string suppressor. The latter does an excellent job at reducing string twang and significantly deadening overall bow vibration during the shot. It is also fully adjustable and quite replaceable. Third, both this version of the Binary Cam and the bow’s 8.5 inch brace height promote a super smooth and forgiving draw cycle. Though this does sacrifice a bit of speed compared to a bow like the Guardian it also creates a super quiet and smooth shooting bow. You really have to shoot it to appreciate it. Shooting it directly against the Black Ice really makes you understand what an eye-opener this bow is. There is no comparison between the two in terms of recoil or vibration levels and that is saying quite a bit when you consider how well the Black Ice handles both categories.
A look at the center track binary cam on the General.
The General also has a few other accuracy enhancing characteristics going for it. For starters the Center Pivot Design itself provides the bow with a more neutral riser geometry. Since a bow’s geometry is determined by where the back of the grip is in relation to the limb pockets the General has a fairly “straight” design. The center pivot effectively moves the limb/limb pocket contact point back further up the limb. This makes the bow much more difficult to torque and therefore provides a more inherently accurate design. In addition, the bow’s mass weight is also a bit heavier than other models in its class. This extra weight provides the shooter with an immediately more stable platform to shoot from. The combination of weight and the center pivot design are a potent combination for accuracy. More on that later.
Enough on the General for now let us look at the other bows in this comparison. From the Diamond lineup I chose two new models … the Marquis and “The Rock”. Both of these models are new introductions into the Diamond lineup.
The Marquis is similar to the Black Ice in overall design with a longer riser and slightly more aggressive cam design. It features the same roller guard and Shortstop string suppressor as the General but is of the more conventional long riser/parallel limb design. Overall balance on this model is very good with a somewhat top heavy feel. The bow feels somewhat reminiscent of one of the previous Bowtech offerings, the Patriot VFT. The difference is that the Marquis has a slimmer grip, more parallel limbs and an overall better shot feel. The shot feel is very much like the General in this regard. Noise levels are exceptionally low and the bow displays next to no recoil during the shot. It does exhibit slightly more vibration than the General but it is still significantly less than the average bow. The surprising aspect of this is how fast the bow is throwing arrows. As mentioned, the Marquis is quiet and practically recoil/vibration free but it is also capable of generating some screaming arrow speeds. My bow arrived with a birth certificate of 324 feet per second at IBO specs. This model would make an excellent 3D bow in my opinion because of its combination of speed and inherent accuracy. Ofcourse, it would also be an excellent model to hunt with if you are expecting the need for longer range shots when you do not have the time or convenience to pull out a rangefinder. The bow is very stable at full draw because of the solid back wall and the bow’s long riser.
Shortstop string suppressor and Rollerguard on the Marquis.
“The Rock” is Diamond’s mid-priced bow typically retailing right around the $400 price point. The head-turning aspect of this model is that it combines some very attractive characteristics at that price point.[/b] One example of this would be the very respectable speed rating of 310-318 fps but with a 7 inch brace height to boot. Two, though not as parallel in design as the Marquis or Black Ice it does offer more of a parallel limb design than other bows currently on the market. This does help to significantly cut down on overall felt recoil compared to many other bows I have shot in recent years. Third, the overall weight of the bow is exceptionally low. Compared to the Black Ice, Marquis or General it feels like the Rock weighs about half as much. Also, because of its’ slightly more conventional riser/limb design the bow also feels much more compact than any of the other models. I feel like I could put this bow in my back pocket and forget it is there.
Last but not least is the Diamond Black Ice. As I mentioned earlier I have been shooting this bow for most of the past year and had chosen it as my primary hunting bow for the 2007 season. As I attempted to relate earlier this bow possesses the perfect combination of weight, length, geometric design, shot feel, speed and accuracy for my typical hunting excursions. I truly enjoy picking this bow up and shooting it. Recoil, noise and vibration levels on this bow are much better than average. Speed is very respectable though not as ‘barn-buring” as the Airborne models. Accuracy, in my hands, is very good in large part because of the combination of the long riser and 7.5+ brace height. Also attractive is the bow’s draw cycle. It is very consistent without a “ramp up” to peak weight or a sudden drop-off into a short valley. This model has also survived a very important “test”. It continues to remain in the Diamond lineup for the 2008 model year. In this day and age of constant improvements that says a lot about a bow not to mention one at the front of the company’s lineup.
All four bows side by side.
As for a technical comparison of the bows’ specifications on paper, here you go:
General
[/b][/b]
Brace Height: 8.25 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 31 3/16th inches[/b]
Speed Mod IBO speed: 307-315 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 77.13 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
Marquis
[/b][/b]
Brace Height: 7 inches[/b]
Draw Weight 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 34.5 inches[/b]
IBO Speed 316-324 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 81.6 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
[/b]Black Ice
[/b]
Brace Height: 7.5 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 32 inches[/b]
IBO Speed: 310-318 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 78.61 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
The Rock[/b]
[/b]
Brace Height: 7 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 31 9/16ths[/b]
IBO Speed: 310-318 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 78.61 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
Now those are the advertised specs for each bow. I found the actual specifications to coincide with them for the most part. There are obviously going to be minor fluctuations in some areas such as brace height, axle to axle length etc… All of the actual bows I am currently comparing are 70 pound peak weight models set at 65 pounds with their number 1 (30 inch) draw length module installed. Individual accessories on each bow are very similar with the exception of a Whisker Biscuit arrow rest being utilized on the Black Ice instead of the prong style rests I have chosen for the other bows. All bows were setup using a simple Lazer Center shot tuning gauge, a T-square and a bubble level kit. All bows were then group-tuned at 20 yards.
Noise level:[/b]
[/b]
This was a fairly close race between the Marquis and the General. With the new shortstop string suppressor both bows were noticeably quieter than both the Black Ice and the Rock. Both bows have to be the quietest adult, compound bows I have ever shot. I think I would have to give the General a slight edge though over the Marquis as the Center Pivot arm seems to help further dampen the bow’s noise level. All of the bows are above average in my opinion. I believe the Hush Kit supplied with each bow is a big part of this.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]As for a technical comparison of the bows’ specifications on paper, here you go:
General
[/b][/b]
Brace Height: 8.25 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 31 3/16th inches[/b]
Speed Mod IBO speed: 307-315 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 77.13 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
Marquis
[/b][/b]
Brace Height: 7 inches[/b]
Draw Weight 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 34.5 inches[/b]
IBO Speed 316-324 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 81.6 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
[/b]Black Ice
[/b]
Brace Height: 7.5 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 32 inches[/b]
IBO Speed: 310-318 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 78.61 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
The Rock[/b]
[/b]
Brace Height: 7 inches[/b]
Draw Weight: 50, 60, 70 pound peak[/b]
Axle to Axle length: 31 9/16ths[/b]
IBO Speed: 310-318 fps[/b]
Kinetic Energy at peak settings: 78.61 fpe[/b]
Adjustable letoff: 65-80%[/b]
[/b]
Now those are the advertised specs for each bow. I found the actual specifications to coincide with them for the most part. There are obviously going to be minor fluctuations in some areas such as brace height, axle to axle length etc… All of the actual bows I am currently comparing are 70 pound peak weight models set at 65 pounds with their number 1 (30 inch) draw length module installed. Individual accessories on each bow are very similar with the exception of a Whisker Biscuit arrow rest being utilized on the Black Ice instead of the prong style rests I have chosen for the other bows. All bows were setup using a simple Lazer Center shot tuning gauge, a T-square and a bubble level kit. All bows were then group-tuned at 20 yards.
Noise level:[/b]
[/b]
This was a fairly close race between the Marquis and the General. With the new shortstop string suppressor both bows were noticeably quieter than both the Black Ice and the Rock. Both bows have to be the quietest adult, compound bows I have ever shot. I think I would have to give the General a slight edge though over the Marquis as the Center Pivot arm seems to help further dampen the bow’s noise level. All of the bows are above average in my opinion. I believe the Hush Kit supplied with each bow is a big part of this.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
Vibration:
[/b][/b]
The General was the clear winner here in my opinion. The vibration level on this bow really has to be felt (or not felt as it is) to be believed. The only issue this bow controls better is recoil. More on that later. The Marquis and Black Ice are pretty much tied for second in this category. The Marquis might be slightly better but I think it is an issue for debate. Both bows deliver unusually low levels of vibration with my typical hunting setup. The Rock is not far behind in this category either. If not for its lighter than average weight I would expect it to be right in with the Marquis and Black Ice in its level of felt vibration. Again, this can also probably be attributed in large part to the factory installed Hush Kit.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Center track support "strut".
Recoil:
[/b][/b]
This category ranking pretty much went hand in hand with the vibration one. The General displayed literally no recoil during the shot. The Marquis was almost as good but still has the ever so slightest bit of lower limb “kick” found on a single cam bow. Most folks would find it as non-existent as the General in this regard but after having shot many single cam bows in recent years I still tend to pick up on it. The Black Ice faired much the same with very little noticeable recoil. The Rock displayed a bit more than the Black Ice but by no means was “bad” in the grand scheme of things. I would most certainly rate it as “low” especially considering how lightweight of a bow it is.
Ranking:
1. General
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Accuracy:
[/b][/b]
This is a difficult category to pick one bow over another because, in many cases, the individual’s personal shooting style and preferences come into play. Because of this reason paper specifications can also be misleading. What one person finds “forgiving” in a bow’s nature might be just the opposite for someone else. A perfect example of this would be the size and feel of the valley of the draw cycle. Some shooters actually shoot better with a shorter, more abrupt valley because it forces them to focus more on their shot sequence. Others find a short valley distracting because they cannot focus on other issues that they may deem more important. Despite these issues I am going to attempt to qualify my justifications in ranking bows in this category.
At this time the Black Ice is shooting the most accurate for me. My explanation for this is simply that I have been shooting this particular bow the longest and have become accustomed to the draw cycle, shot feel, etc… The Marquis should, theoretically, provide the most stable shooting platform because it is not only the longest bow overall but also has the longest riser (think weight distribution). I found it to be very accurate in my hands but not significantly more than any of the other models here in the review.
The General was a bit of a surprise. I tend to have to force myself to focus a bit harder to hold shorter bows steadier. This is, in some part, the result of the bow’s shorter axle to axle length and thus the ease with which you can cant these models. It is also the result of how lightweight many of these models are. The General, on the other hand, does a fantastic job at addressing both of these “issues”. For one, though the bow is short at around 31 inches most of the length really is in the bow’s riser. That means that the weight is more evenly distributed over the full length of the bow thus offering greater stability. What also comes into play here is the Center Pivot design. It helps to greatly reduce vertical torque thus making it much easier to be consistent with your grip. Lastly, the bow’s physical weight is close to four and a half pounds. For a bow this short that is fairly heavy. What the weight does in this case is provide a very stable shooting platform.
The Rock also shoots surprisingly well despite how short and light it is. I had no problem holding the bow steady enough at full draw to stack arrow quite consistently at 20 yards. I am going to attribute a lot of that to the bow’s solid back wall and very ergonomic grip. It allowed me to consistently draw and anchor to the same spot without any difficulty. The light weight of the bow did make it a bit more difficult to hold as steady as the General and or Marquis but, as with many issues it is a simple tradeoff.
Ranking:
1. Black Ice
2. General
3. Marquis
4. The Rock
[ol][/ol]
Speed:
[/b][/b]
I have left this issue to the end for one simple reason. Though Bowtech initially made its mark in the industry with its barn-burning speed numbers it is not one of the primary characteristics that I look for in their bows. Do not get me wrong, their bows continue to put out some really impressive speeds but with my draw length running above average I do not typically have to worry about an IBO speed rating as a primary reason to choose a bow. With that thought in mind I readily admit that I did not even chrono last year’s models. However, for the sake of the report and for an interest in comparison I decided to chrono the four models in this review.
Speeds were all obtained with a size 1 (30 inch draw length) module installed on each bow. A size 2 (29 inch) module was installed on the Rock as a size 1 was unavailable at the time of testing. Estimated adjusted speeds for a 30 inch draw length will be in parentheses. Each bow was set to a 65 pound draw weight. String accessories included a 3-way Shurz a Peep peep sight, string loop and tied-in nockset. Four arrows of differing weights were shot through each bow to obtain a range of performance. Each bow was shot 3 times through two different chronographs. An average was then obtained based on those speeds. Rankings and attained speeds are listed below:
562 gr. alum. 505 gr. alum. 423 gr. carbon 382 gr. carbon
General 231 243 262 276
Marquis 240 253 271 285
Black Ice 236 248 266 279
The Rock 235(245) 247(257)265(275)278(288)
1. The Rock
2. Marquis
3. Black Ice
4. General
Value:
[/b][/b]
Here is a tough category to elaborate on since “value” is such a subjective term. One person might immediately look at the price tag of each bow and then pick the least expensive model because it will take a whitetail just as effectively as the most expensive model. Another person will pull one characteristic from the list because they have found it to be the most important one for their hunting style and then find the bow ranked highest for that category. Still another may take the bow with highest combined rankings and compare it with a more expensive model from another company claiming it offers the best value in comparison.
I leave that decision up to you folks as I am torn in that I look at this issue in all the ways mentioned above.
After Thoughts:
[/b][/b]
I received the three 2008 model bows halfway through our archery season this year. After setting each one up and shooting them daily for a week or two I decided to tote each one of them out for at least one hunt during our regular season. I wanted to get a feel for how each bow not only handled under hunting conditions but also what impressions they left in comparison to the other bows. After following through with my intentions here are my “after thoughts”.
General:[/b]
[/b]
The two issues that struck me the most with this bow were the draw cycle and the physical weight. The former proved to be a dream in two situations where I had the opportunity to draw on game. In both cases the bow proved so effortless to draw back that I was surprised enough in a stressful situation to notice. Two thumbs up on the draw cycle with this bow.
On the negative side of things the bow’s physical weight difference compared to the Black Ice and The Rock were definitely noticeable. There were one or two occasions where I would have been happier carrying a lighter bow especially when you see the hills that I was climbing.
[/b]
[/b]The Binary Cam found the General.
[/b]
Black Ice:
[/b]
As I mentioned earlier I have a bit of a soft spot in my heart for this bow when it comes to hunting. For me it provides the perfect blend of balance, feel and performance that I have yet to really discover in any other bow I have tried. It is a bit early to see if any of the other three bows in this review will take its place as it has left some pretty big shoes to fill.
Hunting with it for most of this season did not diminish that impression one bit. I found it effortless to tote around and to use while on stand. I used it both in a treestand (climber and hang-on) as well as inside a ground blind. In each situation the bow performed entirely to my expectations.
The Black Ice's single cam.
Marquis:[/b]
[/b]
This bow left me with a favorable impression in the hunting environment. Though not quite as compact as the other bows I did not feel like I was overburdened carrying this bow around. There were probably one or two occasions this season where this bow’s extra bit of performance would have come in handy when I did not have the time to accurately determine distance to the target with my rangefinder. I really would not have any issue using this bow in just about any hunting situation. To add to that I plan on using this bow primarily as my 3D bow this off season. It has the perfect combination of speed and forgiveness to make it ideal for that application.
The Marquis single cam.
The Rock:
[/b][/b]
This bow is a perfect example of why we cannot always rely on ranking systems such as the one I used in this comparative review. If you look at my rankings you will see that The Rock rolled in last in almost every category. That gives the impression that the bow is not up to snuff in comparison to the other models. This could not be further from the truth. This bow really showed its worth out in the field. Its lightweight and compact size made it a true dream to use in any situation I could throw at it….ground blind, treestand, toting it up a large hill. You name the situation and I will tell you that it was easy to use it in. If you do not seriously consider this bow because of its fairly modest price or because it isn’t quite as “cutting edge” as some of the other bows discussed here then you are doing yourself a serious disservice.
The Rock's single cam.
Nitpicks/improvements:[/b]
[/b]
Let me start this section off by saying that I really enjoy shooting all four bows and appreciate the fact that I have the ability to do so. I would not have a problem using any of the bows extensively for hunting in just about any type of situation. Keep this in mind as I go through and offer some suggestions as to what I would improve.
Black Ice:[/b]
Let us start off with the easiest one for me. I have been shooting this one the longest so it is the easiest for me to go back and critique. I really do not have much negative to say about it. I would like to see the new roller guard/shortstop string suppressor added to the design. It actually surprises me a little that Bowtech/Diamond did not incorporate this at the same time as the Marquis was introduced. It seems like a natural progression to me though I can see why they may not have. Introducing a new flagship bow is easier if it offers some noticeable improvements over the previous year’s flagship model. Still, I have a hard time believing the Black Ice is going to leave the lineup any time soon. It just has too many things going for it and is too good of a seller from my experience. Adding the roller guard/string suppressor would make an already great bow even better. I would love to see how this bow would feel with this addition.
Marquis:[/b]
[/b]
What I had expected with this bow before handling it was that it basically was just a Black Ice but a bit longer overall. It is to some extent and it is not. It does have the same long riser/parallel limb design but that is pretty much where the similarities end. The cam is different and it feels a little stiffer while drawing. The riser is longer on the Marquis and the balance/feel is entirely different. Speaking of which, that would probably be my only issue with the Marquis. As I mentioned earlier in this review it feels much like some of the older Bowtech single cams and thus a bit top heavy in overall weight distribution. This is not necessarily a bad thing but when I handle it next to the Black Ice or The Rock then it is decisively noticeable. Couple this with the fact that it is a bit heavier than my average bow of late. I am accustomed to something in the 3.5 to 4 pound range and this bow tips the scales at close to 4.5 pounds. A modest diet (more cuts in the riser) or just better weight distribution would be my suggestion here.
I also noticed a potential issue with fletching clearance on this bow. I use 4 inch Norway Duravanes on my hunting arrows. While using either a whisker biscuit or typical prong rest like the GKF Golden Premier it seems like the fletchings pass quite close to the closest cable. I am able to achieve clearance but I wonder if some other folks with high profile vanes may run into some trouble
The Rock:
[/b][/b]
This one is somewhat difficult to critique. With the other three bows you are paying top dollar for their designs. This bow is targeted more for the mid-price market so it seems somewhat petty to expect more from it. Yet, I do. Probably the only negative I could come up with though is the felt recoil/vibration in the shot. As I tried to relate earlier it is not “bad” by any stretch of the imagination. However, after shooting it next to the other three you really get a feeling for how much bow design has been refined over the last two or three years. This bow’s design is definitely more parallel in nature than its predecessor, the Rapture, but I would like to see it stretched just a bit further to see if more of that recoil could be eliminated.
The General:[/b]
[/b]
I took this one hunting a bit more than the other two new models so I got a bit better feel for what I liked and what I did not like in a hunting situation. My biggest suggestion for this bow is to reduce the mass weight. It was also my biggest suggestion for the Guardian and Commander last year. I realize there is probably going to be marginally more weight because of the Center Pivot arm/design but I would like to see if these bows could be revised just a bit more to get them down closer to right at, or maybe a hair below, the four pound range. It was really only the bow’s weight that made me a little hesitant in placing it above the Black Ice as my favorite bow to take out hunting.
Another suggestion might seem a bit nitpicky but since it is something that nagged at me I thought I would mention it. While hunting on the ground and laying the bow down on the ground on a few occasions I managed to get some dirt stuck in there around the limb bolt. Not a big deal if I use some type of bow stand in the blind or if I was hunting a treestand with a preset bow hook but in some cases I did not use either. With that situation in mind I would like to see some type of encasement surrounding the limb bolt area to protect and support that bolt section a bit better. Though I have never had a problem with support in this area I think providing protection at a critical location such as this would make sense. Now this may seem to run somewhat contradictory to my suggestion of reducing weight but I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of the latter for peace of mind.
Lastly, I also noticed a possible issue with fletching clearance on this bow too. It offered essentially the same amount of clearance as the Marquis. In other words just enough for my fletching. I will have to look at this issue further as time allows.
Conclusion:
[/b][/b]
So, there you have it, as unbiased a review from a corporate staff shooter as you are going to find. Keep in mind that though I consider myself fairly well educated I have no expertise in the engineering side of things. My comments and suggestions are simply based on one person’s interpretation based on a lot of experience owning and shooting a variety of bows from many companies. I am not certified in anything and do not pretend to be anything other than an average Joe who really has a passion for bowhunting and an obsession with much of the gear that today dominates our sport. Nowhere else do I receive the enjoyment that I get from sitting on a whitetail stand on a crisp fall morning or from tinkering with a rest or setup endlessly until I get it just the way I want it. Keep those thoughts in mind when you back and read/reread this review. I had a blast putting it together and hope you folks got something from it.
11-20-2007, 06:33 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: A tale of four bows…..
About 6-7 hours of typing, revising and editing in general...over a 3 day period...not counting actual "research time" in the woods, tuning or with the chrono...
.
.
11-20-2007, 07:12 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: A tale of four bows…..
Another suggestion might seem a bit nitpicky but since it is something that nagged at me I thought I would mention it. While hunting on the ground and laying the bow down on the ground on a few occasions I managed to get some dirt stuck in there around the limb bolt. Not a big deal if I use some type of bow stand in the blind or if I was hunting a treestand with a preset bow hook but in some cases I did not use either. With that situation in mind I would like to see some type of encasement surrounding the limb bolt area to protect and support that bolt section a bit better. Though I have never had a problem with support in this area I think providing protection at a critical location such as this would make sense. Now this may seem to run somewhat contradictory to my suggestion of reducing weight but I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of the latter for peace of mind.
DUCT TAPE! Tha's all I'm sayin'.
[8D]
The one thing about the General that I didn't see you mention is that it doesn't have the 'no press' capability like the Guardian and Commander. You have to have a bow press to work on it. It was that feature that made me really take an interest in the BowTech line. I remember the days when presses weren't needed to work on bows and I like seeing it coming back.
11-20-2007, 07:44 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: A tale of four bows…..
Good point Arthur...about the bow press issue not the duct tape.
I forgot to mention that issue and I, for one, should know. Take a guess who was probably the first person to try to back the General all the way down to get the peep sight installed?
Yep, you guessed it. It took me a bit to find a press to get the whole bow back together again.
Thanks for the reminder.
I forgot to mention that issue and I, for one, should know. Take a guess who was probably the first person to try to back the General all the way down to get the peep sight installed?
Yep, you guessed it. It took me a bit to find a press to get the whole bow back together again.
Thanks for the reminder.
11-20-2007, 10:30 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: A tale of four bows…..
Great! Just when I decided that my '05 Diamond Victory is still a great bow and will do just fine for another year I had to go and read that review. Between what I've read and speaking with Ausie-guy most mornings I don't know if I can hold out another year or not. Thanks a bunch! Maybe my inability to choose a new one will help me make it another year. You certainly aren't helping!
Maybe my inability to choose a new one will help me make it another year. You certainly aren't helping!
11-20-2007, 11:08 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crosby TX USA
Posts: 2,599
RE: A tale of four bows…..
Thanks for another great report.
From what I've read here & elsewhere I see no reson to worry about upgrading this year.
My STS equipped Tribute & Patriot VFT are still up there with the latest & greatest IMHO.
From what I've read here & elsewhere I see no reson to worry about upgrading this year.
My STS equipped Tribute & Patriot VFT are still up there with the latest & greatest IMHO.