Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
06-04-2007, 06:04 AM
#21
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 20
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
Here's an interesting,scientifically compiledread: http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/
Check out the study on broadhead performance. While the testing did not include mechanical broadheads, 2,3,4,5, and 6 blade broadheads were compared/tested on a variety of game animals.
Dr.Ashby was shooting a 90# longbow, and his partner in the research was shooting a 85# compound so, I doubt that KE was an issue.
This may change your opinion of 2 blade broadheads.
As far as bloodtrails, there are three contributing factors:
1) Shot placement,
2) The presance or absence of an exit wound,
3) The SHARPNESS of the broadhead.
I have hunted with 2, 3, and 4 blade broadheads over the years. I started out with the 3 and4 blade heads, thenswitched to 2 blades after a local proshop owner had me shoot a few. I have never looked back. Silent flight, superior flight characteristics,unequalledpenitration, and morbid bloodtrails. In tweny years of hunting and around 40 kills, I have neverexperienced a "wound slit" closing up, evenwith marginalhits.If you make a good shotwith an exit wound but, get little orno bloodtrail, then your broadhead was not sharp enough.
"Consensus is the absence of leadership"
Check out the study on broadhead performance. While the testing did not include mechanical broadheads, 2,3,4,5, and 6 blade broadheads were compared/tested on a variety of game animals.
Dr.Ashby was shooting a 90# longbow, and his partner in the research was shooting a 85# compound so, I doubt that KE was an issue.
This may change your opinion of 2 blade broadheads.
As far as bloodtrails, there are three contributing factors:
1) Shot placement,
2) The presance or absence of an exit wound,
3) The SHARPNESS of the broadhead.
I have hunted with 2, 3, and 4 blade broadheads over the years. I started out with the 3 and4 blade heads, thenswitched to 2 blades after a local proshop owner had me shoot a few. I have never looked back. Silent flight, superior flight characteristics,unequalledpenitration, and morbid bloodtrails. In tweny years of hunting and around 40 kills, I have neverexperienced a "wound slit" closing up, evenwith marginalhits.If you make a good shotwith an exit wound but, get little orno bloodtrail, then your broadhead was not sharp enough.
"Consensus is the absence of leadership"
06-04-2007, 06:10 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Balt, MD (orig: J-town,PA) The bowels of Hell!!!
Posts: 2,188
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
A guy had brand new Rage 2's with no blood trail.
Ashby's report again.[:@]
I've read other articlesthat disagree with that on 2 blade broadheads. Bleeder blades were added to correct the issue on amny heads. Are you shooting strictly 2 blade or 2 blade with bleeder blades?
Superior flight characteristics and unequaled penetration? Based on what? There ar a lot of guys that use 3 blades that fly like darts. My arrows go through the deer with 3 blades. So, I'm not sure how to judge penetration.
Every thread seems to evolve in here or get off course.
Ashby's report again.[:@]
I've read other articlesthat disagree with that on 2 blade broadheads. Bleeder blades were added to correct the issue on amny heads. Are you shooting strictly 2 blade or 2 blade with bleeder blades?
Superior flight characteristics and unequaled penetration? Based on what? There ar a lot of guys that use 3 blades that fly like darts. My arrows go through the deer with 3 blades. So, I'm not sure how to judge penetration.
Every thread seems to evolve in here or get off course.
06-04-2007, 08:16 AM
#24
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
Larger cutting diameter is EXACTLY why I switched to Rocket Hammerheads. I have been shooting Stingers and have NOTHING bad to say about them, other than the cutting diameter, which is still pretty good at 1 1/8". 2" is alot better though.
Most guys use mech heads as a bandaid for poorly tuned equipment. If your bow is properly tuned and you aren't using it for a bandaid, by all means, use them. Mehcanicals get a bad rap and I guess in their infancy there was reason for that. They have come a LONG way in the last 10 years and IMVHO, there is simply no reason to shy away from a good, quality mechanical anymore, as long as you are producing adequate KE and momentum.
Most guys use mech heads as a bandaid for poorly tuned equipment. If your bow is properly tuned and you aren't using it for a bandaid, by all means, use them. Mehcanicals get a bad rap and I guess in their infancy there was reason for that. They have come a LONG way in the last 10 years and IMVHO, there is simply no reason to shy away from a good, quality mechanical anymore, as long as you are producing adequate KE and momentum.
06-04-2007, 08:17 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,673
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
ORIGINAL: davepjr71
First, all expandables loose KE on impact. Period end of discussion. The heads use friction to open. Friction means a reduction in speed. Reduction in speed means a reduction in KE. They just do not loose as much as a front opening head.
Second, most peopleare leaning against 2 blade broadheads. It'sa myth that the 2" 2 blade leaves a larger wound than a 1.5" fixed blade. First reason being that the shape of the wound (slice)can lead to the wound closing and cause a loss of blood trail. Second, the wound is no larger. It's just flatter. Most experts recommend the 3 blade due to the shape of the wound (hole). Most fixed blades are over 1" in diameter and the overall cutting area is the same or larger than the 2" head.
ORIGINAL: annika3
Both these heads fly like a field point, lose NO KE opening up and penetrate like a fixed head.
The bigger cutting diameter of the Rage (2")will give you a better chance for recovery on a marginal shotover a 1" fixed head on the same marginal shot.
I also know a lot of fixed heads that have a durability issue also.
ORIGINAL: DougE
I see no pros and only cons with mechanical heads.If you can't get a fixed blade to fly strait,the worst thing you can do is screw on a mechanical.Wide cutting diamaters don't kill any faster if you double lung em.I've been on hand to see plenty of penetration issues with various mechanicals.Mechanicals have durability issue.
I see no pros and only cons with mechanical heads.If you can't get a fixed blade to fly strait,the worst thing you can do is screw on a mechanical.Wide cutting diamaters don't kill any faster if you double lung em.I've been on hand to see plenty of penetration issues with various mechanicals.Mechanicals have durability issue.
The bigger cutting diameter of the Rage (2")will give you a better chance for recovery on a marginal shotover a 1" fixed head on the same marginal shot.
I also know a lot of fixed heads that have a durability issue also.
Second, most peopleare leaning against 2 blade broadheads. It'sa myth that the 2" 2 blade leaves a larger wound than a 1.5" fixed blade. First reason being that the shape of the wound (slice)can lead to the wound closing and cause a loss of blood trail. Second, the wound is no larger. It's just flatter. Most experts recommend the 3 blade due to the shape of the wound (hole). Most fixed blades are over 1" in diameter and the overall cutting area is the same or larger than the 2" head.
i agree with you. Plus, ive always been told and even READ that fixed blades penetrate better than mechanicals due to less friction. Makes sense.
06-04-2007, 12:07 PM
#26
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 20
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
Dave, "The Ashby reports again"? Are you serious? This man is by all accounts the leading authority on archery ballistics. I also read a lot and have never heard anyone discount his findings or question his qualifications.
"A guy had brand new Rage 2's with no blood trail." -Which means that one or more of the factors I originally posted were missing. Either poor shot placement, no exit wound or my guess is that the "new" blades were not all that sharp. Just because broadhead manufacturers claim that thier blades are shaving sharp and ready to hunt with right out of the box dosen't mean that it'salways true. I have seen many brand new replacement blades that were duller than my old ones.
I shoot 2 blades with no bleeder. SteelForce, Muzzy Phantom, Magnus. I used to shoot 4 blade repacement blade heads like Rocky Mountain and Wasp but would only put 2 of the 4 blades in. They all group together and while I'm not a great target archer, I do have to shoot each arrow at a different bullseye to prevent cutting off feathers and knocks or damaging one broadhead with another.(in the target). I also don't shoot over forty yards.
You are right that with broadside shots on deer sized game penitration is rarely an issue. It's with close range treestand shots orquartering shots, orwhen bones are hitthat the penitration issue comes into play.
The unequalled penitration of a two blade head has been proven beyond argumentand has been cited by more than just Dr Ashby. By design a two blade head only has to break a bone once to penitrate it, whereas a three blade has to break the bone in at least two directions to penitrate through the bone and reach the vitals. Breaking a bone once requires less KE than breaking the same bone twice. While any broadhead will blow right through a deer when no bone is encountered, in the area of the vitals there are bones. Most of us hunt from treestands and penitration is also amajor concern with steep "top down" shots toachieve a pass through which will greatly improve the bloodtrail.
MDbuckhunter, I admit that my claim of superior flight characteristics is based largely on personal experiance. Regardless of the bow I am shooting, 2 blade heads invariably produce much tighter groups for me than muti-blade heads. That said there is some science to support my maddness. More blades means more surface area and a greater likelyhood of air/wind resistance effecting the flight of the arrow. Greater surface area also impeads penitration by creating more drag.
Sorry guys, didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers -Sharps
"A guy had brand new Rage 2's with no blood trail." -Which means that one or more of the factors I originally posted were missing. Either poor shot placement, no exit wound or my guess is that the "new" blades were not all that sharp. Just because broadhead manufacturers claim that thier blades are shaving sharp and ready to hunt with right out of the box dosen't mean that it'salways true. I have seen many brand new replacement blades that were duller than my old ones.
I shoot 2 blades with no bleeder. SteelForce, Muzzy Phantom, Magnus. I used to shoot 4 blade repacement blade heads like Rocky Mountain and Wasp but would only put 2 of the 4 blades in. They all group together and while I'm not a great target archer, I do have to shoot each arrow at a different bullseye to prevent cutting off feathers and knocks or damaging one broadhead with another.(in the target). I also don't shoot over forty yards.
You are right that with broadside shots on deer sized game penitration is rarely an issue. It's with close range treestand shots orquartering shots, orwhen bones are hitthat the penitration issue comes into play.
The unequalled penitration of a two blade head has been proven beyond argumentand has been cited by more than just Dr Ashby. By design a two blade head only has to break a bone once to penitrate it, whereas a three blade has to break the bone in at least two directions to penitrate through the bone and reach the vitals. Breaking a bone once requires less KE than breaking the same bone twice. While any broadhead will blow right through a deer when no bone is encountered, in the area of the vitals there are bones. Most of us hunt from treestands and penitration is also amajor concern with steep "top down" shots toachieve a pass through which will greatly improve the bloodtrail.
MDbuckhunter, I admit that my claim of superior flight characteristics is based largely on personal experiance. Regardless of the bow I am shooting, 2 blade heads invariably produce much tighter groups for me than muti-blade heads. That said there is some science to support my maddness. More blades means more surface area and a greater likelyhood of air/wind resistance effecting the flight of the arrow. Greater surface area also impeads penitration by creating more drag.
Sorry guys, didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers -Sharps
06-04-2007, 12:36 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Balt, MD (orig: J-town,PA) The bowels of Hell!!!
Posts: 2,188
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
Sharp,
You do not have to apologize at all. I do not think you ruffled any feathers. At least not mine. The Ashby comment is a hold over from a very heated thread that I'd like to forget and apologize if it came off harsh. So, I just try not to think about it.
I guess where my confusion comes in is that I've read reports by other archers with just as much shooting knowledge and testing as Ashby and they are not wild about 2 blades. And while you have lessfriction due to less bladesthe counter to that is that on a marginal shot the 2 blade can missvitals whilethe 3 blade may have a better chance. Of course, we can run 100's of tests and come up with different results.
I'm a tree stand hunter and know all about the angles of the shots and am not new to archery. On deer sized game the losses with a 3 blade are marginal at best. This again gets back to Ashby and mythoughts onhis tests that I'd rather not bring into this.
Today's 3-blades are very impressive when it comes to performance and flight.They are not like the old solid bladed 3 blades that flew like paper airplanes.
You do not have to apologize at all. I do not think you ruffled any feathers. At least not mine. The Ashby comment is a hold over from a very heated thread that I'd like to forget and apologize if it came off harsh. So, I just try not to think about it.
I guess where my confusion comes in is that I've read reports by other archers with just as much shooting knowledge and testing as Ashby and they are not wild about 2 blades. And while you have lessfriction due to less bladesthe counter to that is that on a marginal shot the 2 blade can missvitals whilethe 3 blade may have a better chance. Of course, we can run 100's of tests and come up with different results.
I'm a tree stand hunter and know all about the angles of the shots and am not new to archery. On deer sized game the losses with a 3 blade are marginal at best. This again gets back to Ashby and mythoughts onhis tests that I'd rather not bring into this.
Today's 3-blades are very impressive when it comes to performance and flight.They are not like the old solid bladed 3 blades that flew like paper airplanes.
06-04-2007, 04:40 PM
#28
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 20
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
Thanks Dave, each to his own.
Midsouthhunter, Sorry for loosing the main question. I don't post to try and change anyones mind about anything, just to give my .02.
So my .02 is this: Stick with a fixed blade broadhead, and the fewer blades the better! -Sharps
Midsouthhunter, Sorry for loosing the main question. I don't post to try and change anyones mind about anything, just to give my .02.
So my .02 is this: Stick with a fixed blade broadhead, and the fewer blades the better! -Sharps
06-04-2007, 04:49 PM
#29
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 189
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
I only shoot fixed blade. I know guys that swear by mechanical broadheads but to me it seems as there is too much that could go wrong...Something could go wrong during flight and throw the arrow off target or something along those lines...Also, it seems as tho unless the shot was a passthru there wouldnt be much blood to work with...Thats just how I see it...
06-04-2007, 08:06 PM
#30
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
RE: Fixed Blade or Mechanicals
One thing that has to be mentioned that it doesn't matter if it is a fixed head or mechanical there will be certain times when you absolutely pipe your shot through the vitals and you don't get much blood.
It's not always the broadhead it's just the animal that has been shot.
It's not always the broadhead it's just the animal that has been shot.