Newbe Question
 

I plan to do some BP this year. I have a couple of questions. What is the best caliber and can you put a scope on any of them?
Thanks Chuck

RE: Newbe Question
 

Almost any of the modern inline rifles come pre tapped for a scope. Yes they can be scoped and accurate to some hard to believe distances. The traditional sidelock rifles can also be scoped. I would suggest a gunsmith doing this as sometimes additional modifications are needed to make the scope work.

The best caliber out there would have to be the .50 caliber for general purpose. There is a wide selection of projectiles. And they can do anything that any of the other calibers can do.

Good luck into your entry to the black powder field....

RE: Newbe Question
 

Thanks for replying. That was very helpful.
Chuck

RE: Newbe Question
 

I just checked and Florida allows smokeless powder in muzzleloaders. I think if I were considering muzzleloading hunting in Florida I would look very long and strong at the Savage as it can be used with smokeless powder, easy to scope and would make hunting a lot less hassle due to lack of black powder fouling. It is also a little easier to get magnum performance from the Savage. I decided against it in Arizona as smokeless powder is not allowed. I have the Omega instead which has been a good decision also. The Savage now comes with the super adjustable trigger that they are putting on their cartridge guns.

RE: Newbe Question
 

Being a newbe I don't quite understand. Are you saying that black powder and smokeless are2 different kinds of powder. Does it matter what model savage I should get? When I go to the gun shop do I just ask for smokeless?

I appreciate your help in this matter. I have 2 WMA in my sights and both are Bow or BP only. Thought I'd better buy a BP.
Chuck

RE: Newbe Question
 

The WMA probabally states "muzzleloader" not black powder.

The question I have for you is how deep do you want to get into muzzleloading your first year out? If I was questioning whether or not this is going to be something I want to do as both a hobby and a hunting weapon I would start with an affordable inline muzzleloader and if I like it move into the high end rifles. This sport is not for everybody and I have seen more than one person spend to much money on a gun they never or hardly ever will shoot.

A bottom of the line Thomson Center or Knight rifle will give you about the best performance you can get for the dollar but many out there will do the same. My son bought a MDM Quickshooter last fall and it is ending up to be one hell of a shooter. $189.

I think someone new to the sport should learn as much as they can about it before going hog wild. I see by your profile you are a teacher and all I can say about the Savage is it is like taking calculus before alg1. It dosn't work.

Go out shooting with a friend who has one or see if any of the clubs around you have a range you can join and check out what's out there. Most muzzleloaders I know are so proud of how well they shoot they will even let you take a shot or two so the mistry is gone.

I hope this helps. I love this sport and I learn something new every time I go to the range. I can tell you will love it too by your questions. I look forward to you telling us what you bought for a rifle.

RE: Newbe Question
 

Chuck actually there are a lot of different powders available to you on the market. Smokeless powder is the same stuff you find in some of the modern centerfire cartridges. The Savage muzzleloader (other then some custom rifles out there) is the only rifle that you should use smokeless powder in. Using smokeless powder in any other brand of muzzleloader is dangerous and should not be done.

True black powders include Goex, Swiss, Grafs, Weno, Elephant, and other brands. Goex is the most common black powder used and it will serve you well. There are substitue black powders also such as American Pioneer Power, Pyrodex, Black Mag3 and of course Triple Se7en. Many of the substitue powders burn cleaner and clean up easier with less fowling in the barrel. Fowling is not all that big of a deal. It is part of the sport you learn to deal with.

What you need to decide is how involved you want to get into black powder muzzleloader shooting. If you buy a Savage Muzzleloader many will claim it is nothing more then a single shot modern rifle. I can not comment because I have never shot one. You get the same claims from some people when you shoot modern inline rifles such as the Omega or Knight Disc Elite and modern substitute powders. There are of course the more traditional style rifles such as the percussion cap lock sidelock rifle and even the flintlock rifle like the early settlers used.

If all you want is a couple extra days hunting during a season, then get some cheap inline. It will shoot out to 100 yards, kill what you want, and then you clean it and put it away for another year. If you really want to get in the black powder sport you might want to consider a more traditional style rifle that shoots roundball with moderate powder charges. As a bow hunter, you know about getting close the the animals before taking a shot. That to me is always part of the fun. Perhaps a traditional rifle might be just what you want. They are a lot of fun to hunt with and shoot in the off season.

Perhaps you should start looking at some of the different gun manufacturers out there and the products they sell and see what appeals to you....

Good luck in your selection.

RE: Newbe Question
 

Chuck - I would advise against the smokeless powder route. I really don't think they have all the bugs worked out of that system yet. I would expect that, if it was so great, all the major rifle manufacturers would be going down that path. They aren't.

The regular black powder guns really aren't that difficult to clean - and some of the new "black" powders, like BM3, T7 or American Pioneer, are amazingly clean burning. I would also advise against using "magnum" loads right out of the box - like the 150 grain charges represented as maximum by many rifle companies. These push the envelope of the system to redline, and have significant recoil.

These are some the things, in retrospect, I wish I would have done when I first started . . . .

Good luck. Roskoe.

RE: Newbe Question
 

WOW!! You hit it pretty darn good. You must have gotten good grades in school. Actually I like counting all of the cost before I dive into anything. I studied reviews for 3 months before I bought my Summit stand.LOL Paid off though.
So what is the difference between a muzzle loader and blackpowder. I thought the muzzle loader used black powder. I shoot frequently with another teacher at a local range. He does not have one but knows how to shoot them. After purchasing one he was going to show me how. We shoot his 14 Mausers and pistols and such. Yes you are right, all of the WMA say muzzle loaders.
Thanks for trying to save me a buck,
Chuck

RE: Newbe Question
 

Chuck,
Heres an excellent article on the basics of muzzleloading.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm

RE: Newbe Question
 

Sreiously, I just plan to shoot it some at a local range and on the 2 day Muzzle loader deer season. So I will just get an inline gun. How many times should I shoot it before I clean it. I know to clean it after every outing . I mean is there a maximun amount of shots I can make before it needs put down and cleaned? You all have been very helpful. I like the different opinions too. It adds spice.LOL
Chuck.
PS Are any of those Walmart guns any good. I bought a 30-30 Marlin from them last year. Shoots awesome and I dropped a buck in his tracks literally.

RE: Newbe Question
 

I have to agree with most of the other posts. I did not realize how new you are to the whole muzzleloader thing. Most states define a muzzleloader as a firearm that loads from the muzzle and they have always in the past used only Black Powder (which is a mixture of sulfur,charcoal and some potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate) or a synthetic black powder like Pyrodex, Triple Seven, American Pioneer Powder, Clean Shot, Clear Shot, Goex Pinnacle,Black Mag'3 and a few others that have come and gone (most of these are made from a sugar based mixture and some are ascorbic acid based which is vitamin "C"). The ascorbic acid based powders are less corrosive to steel and are getting more popular (Black Mag'3,Pinnacle, American Pioneer, Clean Shot are ascorbic acid types). Savage designed a rifle that loads from the muzzle but can use smokeless powder (which is a nitro celluous based mixture that burns cleaner and produces higher pressures than black powder). Smokeless is very dangerous and should not be used in any muzzleloader other than the Savage and must be used with extreme caution even in that rifle. My suggestion falls in line with the others. Do a little shopping for a rifle that feels good in your hands and fits your budget. Try to stay with the american brands even though CVA and Traditions make some good rifles they do have drawbacks that a new guy might not want to deal with and getting help from a foreign manufacturer sometimes fails. Thompson Center really stands behind their rifles and will even warantee a rifle you buy used. Look at H&R and NEF break action rifles as a low cost good manufacturer choice. Get a book on muzzleloading and read it well. Talk to someone that actually shoots one if you can. Keep asking questions on this site. We will all try to help. You will get many opinions and they can all be considered and usually we won't argue with each other a lot. Understand you are dealing with some that have years of experience and sometimes forget how much there is to learn so don't feel bad if someone confuses you by leaving out about 20 years of their learning when answering your questions. As far as powder goes you can start with real black powder which by the way is more sensitive to handling than the synthetics and needs a little more caution when handling and storing. Personally I would recommend that you start with Pyrodex which is easy to find and acts a lot like real black powder. It is a little messy just like black powder and is very corrosive which means you have to clean the rifle right after shooting and do it right (read the book mentioned above). After you get familiar with the rifle I would suggest trying Black Mag'3 as a real clean substitute powder and should be available in Florida as that is where Magkor (the manufacturer) is stationed. I use only Black Mag'3 for hunting as it is easier to get multiple shots without having to swab the bore between shots. Have fun and you will likely get "bitten" and soon wonder why you have ten muzzleloaders.

RE: Newbe Question
 

Since your just starting out are you going to scope the rifle? If you are there is a Wolverine .45 caliber with 209 ignition but does not have sights since it is tapped for a scope for $139.00 . This is a Knight rifle, and they do not come much better then this. This rifle would be death to any deer out to 200 yards with practice.

If you want a simple rifle to take care of that will shoot good, then MLKeith mentioned the NEF Sidekick in .50 caliber. All the reports in on the rifle are excellent shooter, easy to clean, and NEF which is also called H&R by some has been making drop block rifles since Hector was a pup.

As for cleaning you asked... you can sit at the range and shoot the rifle all day without cleaning the rifle. The barrel will get fowl (full of burnt powder crud) and it has to be swabbed out from time to time. Depending on the kind of powder you shoot, that might be between every shot or every 15 shots... all depends on the kind of powder you like to shoot. At the end of the day, you have to break the rifle down and clean it....

The Wal Mart rifles in my area are the CVA Magbolts, Hunterbolts, and Beartooth Magnums... nothing wrong with these rifles. If you load them according to manufacturer's specifications they will do some amazing shooting once you find their sweet load. That can be as easy as you might just fall on the perfect load and be pounding the bull at the end of the day, or trying tons of bullets and not find one that shoots the way you want it to...

Be advised that there are safety concerns with some people over the quality of the barrels used by BPI barrels. BPI makes the CVA, Tradition's, Beartooth, and a couple other brands of rifles. The concern is in the manner the barrels are tested for safety pressure ratings... There are reports that some of the barrel have blown up. I personally have never seen a report but there are pictures on the web of such barrels and claims of the injuries the people shooting them suffered. So not to start an arguement, all I will say is buyer be advised.

As said, the Knights, T/C, NEF are all american made and tested rifles... they are good shooters, like the CVA, Traditions and other brands for the most part. I think common sense is your greatest friend when shooting a black powder rifle. I personally shoot a CVA Staghorn Magnum, among many, and have not had any problems with it....

RE: Newbe Question
 

Anyone reading this should understand that some time has passed since the writing of this article. The comment about ARCO powder for instance. The formula for ARCO was basically an ascorbic acid based powder and the early attempts were lacking for consistency. The newer ascorbic powders like Black Mag'3 have had a lot of development beyond what ARCO had done. I believe that APP, Clean Shot and Goex Pinnacle are all similar based powders with some differences in mixture and manufacturing methods. Personally I like Black Mag'3 the best as it is definately the cleanest. Other than the time that has passed and some development that has taken place; the article is full of good information.

RE: Newbe Question
 

WOW ,You folks sure are helpful. Lots of stuff to comprehend. I do believe all of the questions have been answered.
Thanks,
Chuck