Powders??
 

Is the a cleaner buring powder? I just got a ML and I went out and shot it a few weeks back. I bought the Pyrodex RS. Would the Pyrodex Select or the Triple 7 burn cleaner in the gun. Seems to take alot to clean beofre every shot??

GHJ

RE: Powders??
 

In keeping your barrel clean shot-to-shot, here's how they rate in my book from best to worst

Black Mag-3
American Pioneer/Goex Pinnacle (same)
777
Pyrodex Select/RS... very little fouling differential
Goex Blackpowder


FFF and (P) istol powders are finer & burn cleaner. Both can be used in any ML from 45 to 58 caliber. Weak 209 primers like CCI Standard keep the bore cleaner than strong primers like Federals.

Swab the bore as often as necessary. The more powder used ... the more swabbing. I typically swab with a Windex/Alcohol mix spray bottle after every 2nd shot using 105 gr. 777 FFF. Follow both sides of a wet patch with both sides of a dry patch. The idea is to keep the bore somewhat lightly fouled for best results in most MLs.

Of all the powders I listed, 777 is the only one that leaves a "crusty fouling". This powder usually requires bore brush swabbing to reduce risks of short-seating the next bullet when swabbing is neglected. The use of weak 209 primers and FFF powder with 777 is most beneficial.

If used/purchased correctly, 777 is the best bang for your buck. It offers clean burning when correctly used -- it's high potent & can be purchased for as little as $17.25 jug online. Worthwhile if you shoot alot like me.

RE: Powders??
 

I got a jar of american Pioneer ffg small granulars
really love the stuff![8D]

RE: Powders??
 

FWIW...I used Pyrodex Select and RS in MK85's and TC Hawken sidelock percussions all during the 90's...never had to wipe between shots...the trick was to use borebutter for lube, no petroleum based products.
Switched to flintlocks for the past few years so I had to switch to real BP...same thing, shoot 40 shot range session every Saturday morning with Goex 3F, never wipe between shots.

RE: Powders??
 

I totally concur with Triple Se7en's rating of the powders and shooting/cleaning method.

RE: Powders??
 

Have you guys actually shot the Pinnacle yet? I just got five pounds and had to pay the hazmat fee to get it as Arizona seems to be on the last to receive new powder list. I know it was developed with American Pioneer but it is slightly different color and may have slightly different characteristics. I see the comment that it is the same as APP but am curious if that is from shooting experience or just assumption. I may know soon as I now have some to get through my Omega and over the chronograph. I do not have any fffg APP to compare although I did order the fffg Pinnacle which is still pretty large in grain size. I intend to make a comparison of Pinnacle and Black Mag'3 as I think one or the other of those is going to be what I settle on. I used Black Mag'3 this hunting season and was really pleased with the performance. If Pinnacle is even close to as clean and shoots as well for me and is more available it might take the first place position. Time will tell. I will try to post results when I get range time. Pinnacle may be less expensive when it is really available in stores or at least that is what a rep from Goex told me.

RE: Powders??
 

I agree with Triple Se7en's rating although if you're shooting an inline or cap lock I have to put Pinnacle by Goex right in there with APP. I've never shot the Black Mag3 but that will soon change...

I always kind of liked Pyrodex. It was all I shot for many years. Of course it was all I could get my hands on for many years. At least the crud rings are soft and a quick swab of the barrel has you back shooting...

RE: Powders??
 

Triple Se7en. where are you finding 777 online for $17.25 I would appreciate knowing as this is what I use a ton of in both ML and cartridge guns. Paying 21-$25 now. Thanks for the response.

RE: Powders??
 

If you check at wall-mart after hunting season you may get a steal.A fellow came in the bait shop one day and said he bought some there for $5 a jug.Weather he did or not I don't know,I went to check to see if they had any pyro-select and they didn't have any powder left but did get some T/C xtp's for $2 a box of 20 with sabots.And they did have others things marked down ,but nothing I was interested in.

RE: Powders??
 

I concur .
I know that Borebutter sometimes gets some bad press , but I've used nothing else and never had any problems with it . Fouling is light and soft , my bores sparkle , and when used as a lube the bullets seat with relative ease . I shoot Pyrodex RS™ exclusively .

RE: Powders??
 

I just shot some fffg Pinnacle and the performance is similar to APP but in my Omega the fouling was much heavier. I would rate it somewhere between APP and Pyrodex for fouling. It shot well in my .54 sidelock with PRB but did not do so well in my .50 Omega with sabots. Black Mag'3 outperformed it across the board with sabots or Saber Tooth bullets. The fouling (or lack of fouling) with Black Mag'3 still is the cleanest I have found. Pinnacle might just be as good as Pyrodex for PRB and a little cleaner and I suspect much less corrosive. I have to find some place to shoot up the five pounds that I bought (looks like the .54 Hawken will work).

RE: Powders??
 

I had much different results with the Pinnacle FFFg. I shot it in my Black Diamond XR and Wolverine II and found very little fowling. Although I will state I have never shot Black Mag3 or American Pioneer Powder. I would rate it equal in fowling to the Clean Shot which I shot a lot of many years back and from time to time still. My Wolverine II actually really liked the Pinnacle. I only shot two pounds of it off.

I had arrangements made to get my hands on some Black Mag3 in FFFg grade if there is such a thing. The person who was supposed to bring some up to me last weekend... forgot! [:@] From reading the reports of BM3 by MLKeith and some other posters I really wanted to try this powder.

I think next time into the big city I will get a pound of the AAP in FFFg grade and when I order again more Goex I will pick up a little more Pinnacle for the Wolverine II. I was actually able to shoot 12 T/C Mag Express 240 grain XTP's out of the wolverine without swabbing the bore and the accuracy was excellent although I was not able to shoot at long distances. Now that I can shoot longer ranges with the melting of the snow I have no Pinnacle left, I shot all of it off....

MLKeith.. did you get a chance to shoot some Pinnacle through a chronograph? Also what was your opinion of the water resistance abilities of the powder? I also agree it shot great out of the sidelock cap guns but I would not recommend it for a flinter....

RE: Powders??
 

I am amazed what some of you have to pay for powder. I just bought a pound of FFF goex for $10.25. I paid $23 for my first pound of 777 but since have averaged about $15. RS can normally be had for about $10-$11 but the select sells for more than 777. I only buy pellets when they are on sale I don't find them that much easier to shoot and also don't seem to have the same punch as loose powder.

Cayugad you may be able to confirm this for me but I was told they actually made the 777 pellets to be the equivilent of Pyrodex pellets that meaning three 50g 777 pellets=three 50g Pyrodex pellets. So unlike the loose 777 which is 15% stronger it is an equal strength pellet.

I was told that it, is not a statement of fact.

RE: Powders??
 

That's correct. Three Triple Se7en FFg pellets are said to be equal in strength to three Pyrodex Pellets. In loose form there is a difference in the strength of the two powders of course.

I can normally find Pyrodex RS on sale for $10-15 dollars a pound. Triple Se7en on sale I picked up for $16 this past season. I buy my Goex by the case of course and get a real good cut on the price that way.... It averages around $10 a pound which is not too bad. I like the FFFg Goex the best of all. Next week I am going to be shooting some FFFg Swiss Black Powder. I have heard a lot of good things about this. Time will tell.

RE: Powders??
 

All BM3 is FFF.
BM2 (FF) was dispensed in the latter 1990s. Haven't seen it since. Any remaining won't have Y2K+ code dates.... probably permanently discontinued (guess).

RE: Powders??
 

I did shoot over a chronograph. I had a lot of problem due to very heavy sun load and trying to shade the chronograph. It would record the shot but immediately cancel it if I was not quick I lost the reading. My accuracy suffered due to this. I shot 90gr. charges of Pinnacle and Black Mag'3 under a 300gr. Ranier cast bullet in a Harvester sabot using the .25ACP conversion with Winchester small rifle primers. I am wondering if using the hotter 209 primer might just clean up the fouling. I suspect that is what you were using. (Please confirm???). My comparison results were as follows:
In the .50 Omega"
Black Mag'3 1930fps.
Pinnacle 1350fps.

In the .54 Hawken (75gr. powder PRB Ballistol patch lube cci magnum cap)
Black Mag'3 1000fps.
Pinnacle 1233fps. (little spread 1233,1232,1235)

In the Omega (shot a few 300gr. Saber Tooth with 90gr. charges)
Black Mag'3 1700fps.
Pinnacle 1350fps. (big spread)

These were only three shot groups and volume measured only (not weighed charges)
As you can see this powder seems to be made for the sidelock .54 although I have to do a lot more before I can comment on accuracy. I just got the rifle so I don't know much about it and what it likes.

RE: Powders??
 

Black Mag-3 (The cleanest by far)
American Pioneer
Hodgdon 777 3F
Swiss Blackpowder 3F
Pyrodex Select/RS
Goex Blackpowder 3F
Elephant Black Powder 3F

My .002

RE: Powders??
 

MLKeith... excellent information. I figured the Pinnacle was a lot less powerful but never figured there was that much difference. How did the BM3 compare to Triple Se7en? Did you post that information somewhere? I really do want to try some of that powder.

RE: Powders??
 

My full comparison is posted in Greybeardoutdoors under Modern and Black Mag'3. I think the last post on that thread was maybe in January??

I shot ffg 777 and Black Mag'3 back to back same 100gr. volume under 300gr. bullet in Harvester sabot.
Black Mag'3 1920fps.
ffg 777 1643fps.

Recoil in my Omega with the Black Mag'3 was rather pleasant. I would shoot 15 or twenty without complaint. Same charge with the 777 was in my opinion violent. I would be hard pressed to shoot more than five of those. Black Mag'3 much cleaner than anything else.

The above figures were with rifle primers. I shot three shots of Black Mag'3 with 209 Winchester primer and the average was 2004fps. Magkor agrees higher velocity with 209 primer.

RE: Powders??
 

I've been using APP in a Knight for 5+ years. Love the stuff - except for the potential moisture contamination.

After reading here I'm gonna find some BM3. Sounds like it might outperform APP in many aspects. I would also love to try the Swiss in my T/C but nobody carries it around here. I've always heard Swiss is the hottest/best BP on market?

I'm really curious if anybody here has made any comparisons with APP against other synthetics thru a chronograph??

Just a added note;IMO this is probably the most, or at least in the top 3, most informative forums on HuntingNet!

RE: Powders??
 

Wow Keith,

Pinnacle is THAT much weaker and greater fouling than BM'3? If that's the case I won't even bother with trying it.