C. Davis

Cayugad,
I shoot those out of my T/C Hawken with 85 gr. of FFG Goex. The 48 inch twist stabilizes them just fine, and they are as accurate if not more accurate than a 370 gr. maxiball. In the last several years, I have ordered 3 boxes of 50 from the guy in Utah. I like the way you order them online, and in a few days you get the bullets and the bill.

I think they would be a great target bullet If you can get over the stout jolt you get with such a heavy load, and the fact that you are wasting almost 300 gr. of lead than you need to. I think for hunting they are perfect. They are easy to load, hit where you aim them, and are deadly. I personally like the idea of full sized conicals, because I like to use all of the caliber that my gun allows.

C. Davis

cayugad

C. Davis ... I personally have not tried them out of my Hawkins, but thanks for the tip I will give them a try. Like you, the big conicals sure do make a statement down range. Not only that but you're leaving a 1/2 inch hole through what ever you shoot at. Put a hole like that along with other tissue damage through the vitals of an animal and you best own a freezer and a good knife.....

Thanks again of the hint on the Hawkins. I have a couple more boxes coming to the house right now...

1950KID

Get a Knight or Thompson Center. Wal-Mart has them very reasonable.

1SHOT_1KILL

Oldelk,

If you had a White before, and was happy with it, then why not another White 91? Since you want to shoot huge conicals at only 1200 FPS, a White would fit your purpose. As for me, I like to shoot meduim weight saboted bullets, 250gr-340grs of weight, at twice that speed. Also I don't like having to clean my muzzleloaders immediately after shooting and constantly regardless of wether I shoot them or not. That is why I shoot Savage muzzleloaders only. In my opinion, a Hornady 300gr SST at 2,100-2,200 FSP would would be potent medicine for just about anything in NA.

I've heard good things about the NEF Sidekick muzzleloader. It is supposed to be a good ML for the $$. Form what I understand it is light years ahead of CVA, Traditions, and Winchester in terms of safety with higher pressure loads, 100 grains plus, of Pyrodex and especailly T-7. Ever since T-7 hit the market CVA, Traditions, and Winchester muzzleloaders have been their barrels popping like pop corn all across the county.

oldelkhunter

One Shot.. if white were more stable I would probably buy another one because Ilike the design of that gun. They however keep coming and going and I don't want to buy a muzzleloader that costs that much and have unreliable service in the event of failure. I will probably go with the more mainstream guns like Knight,TC,NEF or Savage and completely avoid CVA/TRAditions/Winchester.

1SHOT_1KILL

I understand exctly what you're talking about. White has been teetering on the preverabial edge for a few years now. From what I understand White Rifles does have reputation for good costumer service, which is a good as I also understand that every now and then a lemon gets shipped. However, I would not be so quick to rule out White yet, especially since you like them and have first knowledge of them. Here is a link to a guy that can give you much more and better info on the status of White than I can. [link]http://www.sunrisearchery.com/[/link] Tom can give the latest and greatest on White.

I would recommend the Savage, just because it is so versatile, user friendly, and strong. Of course, Knight and T/C are good Ml as well, but not nearly as versatile and strong as the Savage, IMHO.

MLKeith

Unless you can use smokeless powder in your state I do not see how the Savage is any more "user friendly" than the others. First you have to use a throwaway vent liner which cost a bunch over time, then there is the mess with the bolt which does not come apart easily and from some reports there is a screw in the bolt disassembly that breaks. Personally I feel a bolt muzzleloader is prone to be problems as the bolts have to be kept clean to keep working. Missfires occur with dirty bolts. Break action or drop action muzzleloaders give you more barrel length than a bolt for the same length rifle and do not require the dissassembly of the bolt to clean. I almost bought the Savage but since Arizona does not allow smokeless I went with the T/C Omega and would do the same thing again after having it for three years. I also have a sidelock T/C Hawken for fun shooting but for hunting it is the Omega since we can use a scope and 209 primers.

Tahquamenon

Handle as many as you can prior to purchasing.

T/C is excellent along with Knight.

The NEF is a good little rifle. Savage is good, but the warranty is weak for such a well built rifle.

Stick with a 50 caliber unless a great deal on a 45 comes by.

Look to the conical for tossing that hefty mass of lead downrange.

1SHOT_1KILL

The Savage has a totally sealed action, absolutely no blow back gets into the action or the bolt. The never has to be torn down for cleaning. I have many thousands of rounds through my 7 Savage 10ML's and 10ML-II, and I have never had to tear down a bolt for cleaning, not once. I have never heard of the screw in the bolt breaking either, nor have I heard of one being retruned to Savage for a broken bolt screw. You do have to "remove" the bolt for cleaning, but you shouldn't have to, and shouldn't anyway, tear it down at all for cleaning.

Yes, you do have to change the vent liner every now and then, but it is a wear tiem that keeps one from having to replace the breech plug and is much cheaper than replacing the breech plug. Life span of the vent liner depends on the loads being used. The hotter the loads, the shorter the life. Once the vent liner wears, the groups will start opening up. With mild loads of smokeless, you can get about 400 rounds, with hot loads about 150-200. With Pyrodex or T-7, you should get about 300-400 rounds.

Here in NC, smokeless powder is legal for use, so I use it. I have hunted with smokeless pwoder since 1991, in my cusotm builts and in the Savages. The Savage can shoot any of the powders the Knight's and T/C can, plus the added advantage of smokeless. This IMO, makes the Savage more verstile than many of the other ML's on the market. Nothing against the Knights, NEFs, or T/Cs at all, they are fine ML's. IMHO the Savage is still more user friendly and versatile.

oldelkhunter

1shot..what load do you find that shoots best in that SAvage?