difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Upgraded this fall to an omega from an old knight mk-85. The knight would get tight after 10-15 shots using pyrodex and hornady sabots. This new omega is tighter on the first shot than the knight was at the fifteenth. Second shot without swabbing was an impossibility. I was using 2-777 pellets and sst's. I tried the hornady sabots and powerbelts, but the sst's grouped the best. ANY HELP?????????

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Try a 245 gr. Barnes Spitfire.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

T/C Omega rifles seem to vary in barrel tightness and amount of fouling with powder especially Triple Seven. Lots of people use Triple Seven with no problem. I cannot shoot the stuff in my .50cal Stainless Omega without a hard fouling ring forming just forward of the powder charge (the infamous "crud ring"). I have tried all the fixes. No lube, clean barrel with alcohol, smooth barrel with 200 passes JB bore paste, .25ACP primer conversion, Use Powerbelts instead of sabot/bullet combinations, loose Tripple Seven, Tripple Seven pellets, all three style breechplugs from T/C, bore butter in the base of the Powerbelt, CCI 209 primers, Winchester 209 primers, Remington 209 primers, and some I probably forgot. The only improvement worth mentioning is the .25ACP conversion using Winchester standard rifle primers. It gets rid of about 80% of the problem in my rifle but I still cannot load a second shot without a couple of swabs between (one wet and one dry with patch switched for both sides on both patches - thats four passes with the ramrod). I finally ordered four pounds of Black Mag'3 and it is a 100% fix. I can load multiple shots without a swab between with either Powerbelts or bullets with Harvester sabots. The powder is presently expensive but actually cheap considering what I spent to not fix the problem. A plus is that the powder is non-corrosive to steel which really helps to set my mind at ease when I am in the field and cannot get to boiling water. A couple of patches and a little oil and my expensive rifle is good to go for several days before I have to really clean it. Hornady 300gr. SST bullets in Harvester sabots group real good in my rifle with 90-100gr. of BM3 at 1920fps(100gr.) with the .25ACP primer or just over 2000fps with the 209 primer. I dropped back to 90gr. for my elk hunt this year and shot completely through the chest cavity with the 300gr. SST.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Hi Woodsman66,

I had same experience with my new T/C Omega this last fall -- tight barrel. First thing is to slug your barrel and find the land and groove diameters. My Omega's groove was 0.509", but T/C barrels vary quite a bit so you must measure your barrel for yourself. Next measure the diameter across the sabot with bullet (measure across the bullet sides, not the base or skirt of the sabot). The T/C Shockwaves (same as Hornady SSTs) with the T/C sabot measured 0.509" which is a very tight fit and leaves no room for fouling. The same bullet with an MMP sabot measured about 0.507", and the Harvester measured 0.504". Try MMP or Harvester sabots for easier loading.

Like MLKeith, I had the dreaded crud ring in an old .54 Knight Mark 85, and then in the .50 Omega. Switching to Black Mag 3 solved the problem.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

My Omega barrel slug measured .500 on the lands and .509 on the grooves and I found similar measurement of the combinations of bullet/sabots. Harvester sabots and .451 or .450 bullets (if you can find them that small) solves most of the problems and with the Black Mag'3 powder loading is now possible.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

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Knights have wider bore diameters than 95% of all other ML manufacturers. I take a micrometer & clear scotch tape with me bullet-shopping for my Omega. If I cannot measure a bullet in the store, I purchase it - then measure it in my automobile. If it's .429 (44-cal) or .451 (45-cal), I'm good.... but if it's .430 or .452, I repair the package & take it back in the store for a refund.... those are too tight for my standards.

I always keep a supply of 45-cal Harvester plastic sabots & 44-cal MMP plastic sabots because they're constructed to load easier. Some Barnes bullets load without a grunt - as do almost all Precision, Buffalo, Speer & Noslers. A few Hornadys are either .429 or .451... but not many anymore. My favorites for the Omega are
Nosler handgun bullets (especially Partitions)
Speer handgun bullets (especially Gold Dots)
Hornady XTPs 230 gr .451
Buffalo SSBs (special sabot bullet)
Precision sabot/bullets (most-all)
Barnes Spitfires/Expanders
Harvester Sabertooths
Powerbelts

Any others may require a plastic sabot change.... including the new arrival packaged bullets from T/C. Thompson recently changed plastic sabot companies.... much harder to load now. The Sierra bullets claim to be 429/451, but they measure much closer to 430 & 452.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Thats going to be even tighter???

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Think your just going to have to give it time. I also had one of the first years of MK's. I also have a 98 model. The 1998 model is much tighter than the late 80's model. They did tighten up the bores I believe and was told. My three guns proved it too. My new elite has about the same tightness as my late 90's model MK but first 100 rounds was tight and bore rough. I put 200 stokes of JB bore paste thru it. Smoothed it out a bit.

I believe, that the idea of Knight having a oversized bore was from the days gone by. My new elite has diameter (just measured) of inside groove diameter of .509" and lands measurement (tough to get) of .500". Thats about the same as my T/C.

How many rounds do you got thru it? Maybe get some JB Bore paste. Its a semi abrasive cleaner. Put a tight patch on and rub some JB's on. Run it back and forth thru the bore 30 strokes. Clean it out with any gun solvent. Do it again. Do it about 200 strokes. You will feel the differnce loading. May not be easier, but smoother and more consistetn.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

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The 245 Spitfires (and all Buffalo SSBs) have been measuring under .450. I have around 260 SSBs in 285 grain.... yet to find one that measures over .449.... most are .448. I have recently purchased a thicker Hornady plastic sabot for these. The MMP HPH-12s that came with the Buffalos fit too loose - yet these are the thickest sabots MMP offers. The thinnest sabot MMP has (HPH-24s) still do not load as easy as the Harvesters. MMP uses a different composition to retard high temperatures than Harvester. As a result, they tend to be "bore wall stickier."

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Hey Woodsman66! Welcome!

The Omega's and Encore's tend to be on the tighter side of the bore diameter.

Also, make sure you really cleaned the barrel. I'd suggest a good bore solvent like butch's bore shine or the like.

You may need to swab more often or between each shot. Especially with SST's.

Also, loading sabots on a warmer or hot barrel will for certain be more difficult.

Before you run out to buy more bullets, try swabbing and waiting a bit longer inbetween shots. I swab inbetween each shot when shooting sabots.

This works well:
Down and Up with a damp(not dripping wet) patch, then with an isopropyl alcohol patch, then a dry patch.

I would avoid using a lapping compound at first as you could end up with breaking in being more equal to premature wear.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Goodness, you know how much shooting it takes to wear a muzzleload barrel? Alot. It ain't like a 300RUM or 223WSSM. I observe wear carefully with a hawkeye borescope. Ask one shot on here. some of those savage guys push JB's thru 2000 strokes! The only think I ruined a barrel with is firelapping in a centerfire. Rounded off the rifling cleanly. Quite disappointing.

Also, isn't butches an ammonia base solvent? Won't have much effect on plastic fouling will it? Just curious cause of the windex idea people do. I don't, just wondering ammonia is good for powder to instead of copper.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Hey BC,
Good points.
I also agree that lapping a barrel is not that difficult and wearing out a barrel should take a very long time. But should that be done right out of the box?

Use of a lapping compound is not what I would consider for at novice. You can screw up your barrel if lapping is not done correctly.

My point is, I would just make sure new barrel is really clean first. Then followed with good maintenance and shooting procedures. Then if still having loading trouble or accuracy issues, then lapping would likely be the next step.

;)

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

You know I have yet to use any type of solution beside one bottle of the knight stuff, then regular ole dawn.

If there are any advantages to using one solution or the other, I would like to know. Pretty open minded guy when learning new things about the dreaded cleaning.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

I'm not 100% sure. I've honestly never had faith in the "Black Powder" cleaners. And they are worthless with packing lubes from shipping, rust, plastic, copper and lead fouling.

Laundry or dish soap and the hottest water works great for BP fouling.

I've been using Butch's Bore Shine on everything. Not all the time, every time I clean.
Only on a new rifle to get the packing lube out, or if I notice pastic or bullet fouling. Or on a barrel on a used rifle that has some rust.

I use BBS on average every 100 or so shots in a barrel to keep fouling a non-issue.

I'm ultra meticulous on cleaning and really don't end up with issues.

The natural lubes work excellent for patch & ball and conicals.
But I am not convinced that they displace moisture for long term storage.

Thus, I always used oils like hoppe's & remoil in the old days, Breakfree CLP for years. And now using OTIS U series lubes for storage.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

I guess i just got lucky with my Omega. 50 cal stainless, and I can get 3 shots in it without swabbing. Its not that hard to load. Never tried it, but some people say it helps to put a tiny drop of oil on your finger and rub it on the base of the sabot.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

Difficult loading of a second shot forced me to make a change. I shoot 300grain SST's at the range, (swabbing with a spit patch after each shot) During Inline season I start with the SST and use a 295grain Powerbelt for a follow-up if needed, they shoot almost identical to the SST at 50 and 100 yards and are easier to load that second shot.

RE: difficulty loading t/c omega
 

I shoot exactly the same combination when hunting. This year I shot an elk with the SST and put a second one in with the 295gr. Powerbelt. Only difference from you is that I do not swab between shots but I am shooting Black Mag'3 which does not require it and my accuracy is good without the swab.