Melted Sabot?
#11
RE: Melted Sabot?
deerplague
Thanks for the information - I really belive your hi-tec Encore is a better rifle than you give it credit for.
I agree with Cayugad about the possibilty of the stem burning & even the probablilty that it could happen. I have never shot those sabots so I am not a qualified source of information on that fact.
The 460 NE bullet that Cayugad suggested to you is a very good lead projectile and if you are required to shoot lead but if you can use sabots there are a lot better bullets out there that shoot flatter and faster. If all of your shooting is a t relative short ranges the 460 is outstanding. If you plan to test the limits of the Encore or you want to be ready to shoot the limits of that gun I would go a different direction.
I myself shoot basically two different bullets, a 300 grain bullet for Elk and a 260 grain bullet for whitetail/mule deer. The 260 is an amazing bullet. I must tell for hunting I do shoot Nosler Partitions - for the range and recreation I shoot Hornadys.
The elk load is 100 grains of t7-2f loose powder, an Orange MMP .458 Sabot, and Nosler .458 (45/70) 300 grain Partition - they work great on the thicker skin of an elk. The deer load is the same powder Nosler Sabot and a 260 grain Nosler Partition. Hunting is not necessary to swab between shots - I can get of about six shots before thay get dfficult to get down. I believe a part of this is the way i treat my barrels - things just do not stick to them + t7 is a little cleaner than any of the pyros... These bullets are quick and relatively flat as compared to the 460. We do not get to ambush deer and elk very often here in this part of Idaho a lot of the shots are at moving animals especially late in the season - ranges vary from 10 yard to ??? what ever your personal limit is. I really feel more comfortable with these ballistics.
Winchester primers are awful hot, might want to try some CCI 209's or even some french Cheddites - they work really well.
Here are a couple of targets just for general information....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...loader/458.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...der/Target.jpg
Hope some of this helps some - let me know if I can help you with anything...
Thanks for the information - I really belive your hi-tec Encore is a better rifle than you give it credit for.
I agree with Cayugad about the possibilty of the stem burning & even the probablilty that it could happen. I have never shot those sabots so I am not a qualified source of information on that fact.
The 460 NE bullet that Cayugad suggested to you is a very good lead projectile and if you are required to shoot lead but if you can use sabots there are a lot better bullets out there that shoot flatter and faster. If all of your shooting is a t relative short ranges the 460 is outstanding. If you plan to test the limits of the Encore or you want to be ready to shoot the limits of that gun I would go a different direction.
I myself shoot basically two different bullets, a 300 grain bullet for Elk and a 260 grain bullet for whitetail/mule deer. The 260 is an amazing bullet. I must tell for hunting I do shoot Nosler Partitions - for the range and recreation I shoot Hornadys.
The elk load is 100 grains of t7-2f loose powder, an Orange MMP .458 Sabot, and Nosler .458 (45/70) 300 grain Partition - they work great on the thicker skin of an elk. The deer load is the same powder Nosler Sabot and a 260 grain Nosler Partition. Hunting is not necessary to swab between shots - I can get of about six shots before thay get dfficult to get down. I believe a part of this is the way i treat my barrels - things just do not stick to them + t7 is a little cleaner than any of the pyros... These bullets are quick and relatively flat as compared to the 460. We do not get to ambush deer and elk very often here in this part of Idaho a lot of the shots are at moving animals especially late in the season - ranges vary from 10 yard to ??? what ever your personal limit is. I really feel more comfortable with these ballistics.
Winchester primers are awful hot, might want to try some CCI 209's or even some french Cheddites - they work really well.
Here are a couple of targets just for general information....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...loader/458.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...der/Target.jpg
Hope some of this helps some - let me know if I can help you with anything...
#12
RE: Melted Sabot?
That is some nice shooting there sabotloader. I kind of like the bigger bullets myself, but the No Excuses are sure accurate in the Black Diamond...
Another one to try in the Buffalo Bullet 375 grain SSB sabot. I buy them at Cabela's and they are a great shooting sabot. Very accurate and excellent down range energy. Sabotloader has a point about if your shooting long range, a good sabot might be the way to go.
Another one to try in the Buffalo Bullet 375 grain SSB sabot. I buy them at Cabela's and they are a great shooting sabot. Very accurate and excellent down range energy. Sabotloader has a point about if your shooting long range, a good sabot might be the way to go.
#13
RE: Melted Sabot?
cayugad
I have a very high regard for you Cayugad - I personally think you are one of those guys that could pick up any rifle, a gooden or a baden, and shoot off your sticks better than anyone else or even better than the gun should - I have know doubt that any bullet will shoot well for you from any of your guns.
I know you and a lot of other people really like those heavy projectiles and there is no doubt about there abilities, but I am still hooked on the fast & somewhat flat theory. The time it takes for a 460 grain projectile to get down range seems really long to me, now with that statement it is hard for me to remember more than a handful of shots that I have taken greater than 100 - BUT, what if?
According to my calculations a:
300 grain projectile with a Muzzle velocity of 1750 fps will have 1463 fps & 1426 fp of energy at a 100 and +2.83" and at 200 have a velocity of 1230 with 1007fpe & down 9" - Zero range 143 yards.
a 460 with a MV of 1400fps, it will have a velocity of 1222fps and 1526 fpe @ a 100 and +2" - at 200 it will be down -18" have a velocity of 1102fps and 1240fpe - Zero range 119 yards.
With the Nosler Partition if I hit it, and I will hit it, I am pretty much guaranteed penetration, shock, and a devastating sprial cut wound channel.
Just the rambling thoughts of an ameture in the world of shooting and performance knowledge. It is all in the results..
I have a very high regard for you Cayugad - I personally think you are one of those guys that could pick up any rifle, a gooden or a baden, and shoot off your sticks better than anyone else or even better than the gun should - I have know doubt that any bullet will shoot well for you from any of your guns.
I know you and a lot of other people really like those heavy projectiles and there is no doubt about there abilities, but I am still hooked on the fast & somewhat flat theory. The time it takes for a 460 grain projectile to get down range seems really long to me, now with that statement it is hard for me to remember more than a handful of shots that I have taken greater than 100 - BUT, what if?
According to my calculations a:
300 grain projectile with a Muzzle velocity of 1750 fps will have 1463 fps & 1426 fp of energy at a 100 and +2.83" and at 200 have a velocity of 1230 with 1007fpe & down 9" - Zero range 143 yards.
a 460 with a MV of 1400fps, it will have a velocity of 1222fps and 1526 fpe @ a 100 and +2" - at 200 it will be down -18" have a velocity of 1102fps and 1240fpe - Zero range 119 yards.
With the Nosler Partition if I hit it, and I will hit it, I am pretty much guaranteed penetration, shock, and a devastating sprial cut wound channel.
Just the rambling thoughts of an ameture in the world of shooting and performance knowledge. It is all in the results..
#14
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3
RE: Melted Sabot?
Deerplague:
I went back to range yesterday and picked up my lock and loads. I only found one and none of it was melted, not even the stem. I believe I am shooting the same set up as you 250 SST with the lock and load sabot with 2 reg pyrodex pellets out of a Encore 50cal. the grouping were poor IMO around 2.5" to 3" @ 100yrds off sand bags. They tightened up from day before. I think the gun just needs to be broke in so to speak (more shots). I am going to send my in to someone to get a trigger job after the last of January. The 4 to 5 #s it is pulling now is unacceptable. I feel like you do. I sold a rem. 700ml to buy the Encore and I could cut holes @ 100 yrds every time I shot. I do not mind the cleaning between shots as I have always done so. I am going to experiment with a follow up shot (for hunting)with the 245gr or 295gr power belt once I get it right with the 250SST's as they are much easier to load.
I went back to range yesterday and picked up my lock and loads. I only found one and none of it was melted, not even the stem. I believe I am shooting the same set up as you 250 SST with the lock and load sabot with 2 reg pyrodex pellets out of a Encore 50cal. the grouping were poor IMO around 2.5" to 3" @ 100yrds off sand bags. They tightened up from day before. I think the gun just needs to be broke in so to speak (more shots). I am going to send my in to someone to get a trigger job after the last of January. The 4 to 5 #s it is pulling now is unacceptable. I feel like you do. I sold a rem. 700ml to buy the Encore and I could cut holes @ 100 yrds every time I shot. I do not mind the cleaning between shots as I have always done so. I am going to experiment with a follow up shot (for hunting)with the 245gr or 295gr power belt once I get it right with the 250SST's as they are much easier to load.
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 986
RE: Melted Sabot?
I have a stainless Omega which has a similar barrel to your Encore. T/ C barrels tend to be very tight. Loading any sabot in mine is difficult when clean and almost impossible when fouled. The worst fouling occurs with 777. I did a lot of stuff to try to use 777 powder. I bought the .25ACP rifle primer conversion breechplug. I bought all three configuration breechplugs. I lapped the barrel with 200 passes of JB on a patch over a bronze brush. I shot Powerbelts to smooth the bore. After all this I still could not load a second shot with a Hornady sabot after shooting ffg 777 with charges from 80gr. to 100gr. I tried American Pioneer Powder which allows one or two shots in a row without a swab. I shot Pyrodex which also allows a couple of shots but is real dirty. I finally found some Black Mag3 powder and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!! I can shoot multiple shots without a swab. Point of impact does not change from clean to multiple shots after clean. Velocity is higher over my chronograph with equal volume of BM3 and ffg 777. Recoil is softer and feels like less which with the increased velocity is almost difficult to believe. I can use 209 primers or the .25ACP conversion and it is slightly better with the rifle primers but 209's work with this powder too. I no longer worry about the 777 crud ring. PS; BM3 is supposed to be non-corrosive (that part I don't trust as yet).