remington 700 ml
 

i want to convert mine to 209 shotgun primers and wondering what is the best one? i've seen a couple different ones out there and was just wondering

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Unless you plan on using Pyrodex pellets, you are better-off staying with hot #11 nipple & magnum #11 caps that produce less scope blowback & less crud buildup with 777 loose powder. With this 209 conversion -- which is better than the Remington conversion, posters reported 777 pellet success using ultra-hot, Federal 209 primers.

Caution: Cover your scope bottom!

Cabelas Remington 700 ML 209 Breechplug Conversion

RE: remington 700 ml
 

My understanding is that the conversion kit Cabela's sells is better, if that is the info you are looking for.

I agree with triple seven though. I have a 700ml, I use musket caps and don't have any trouble with it. I just don't see the point in changing to 209's yet. I watch my buddies that have them and they wrestle with getting the primers out and stuff, mine you just roll the rifle over and the musket caps fall right out, no tool needed to load or unload them.

Paul

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I converted my 700MLS to 209 a few years ago with the cabela's one. It has worked excellent. I know a number of guys who have experienced problems with the rem 209 kit and the ones that have switched to the Cabela's are now thrilled!

I use winchester 209W primers and haven't experienced any problems with hangs, misfires or the dreaded crud ring using T7 Loose.(I do swab between shots though and my current load is 100 grs loose)

RE: remington 700 ml
 

MarineStud

Ditto - ditto -everything skeeter 7MM said + the added protection of a more water proof system, especially in states where an open breech is required.

If the open breech isn't required and you are using a Cabelas conversion you can use a simple 20 guage shot shell plastic case as a cover then you don't need to worry about you scope. If you are using the Remington conversion you have a couple of options.

The new Remington weather shroud is metal not fiber and will stand up forever, just needs a gas escape drilled in it. I make them out of copper tubing but now that Remington is producing metal ones I am just going to order a couple - they fit my Austin and Halleck also.

Here is a picture - the top picture shows the Remington with a home made shot gun shell weather shroud and the new Remington metal shroud (without a gas vent). The bottom picture shows the A&H with homemade copper shroud.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/Wshouds2.jpg

Cabels Remington conversion

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...results1.jhtml

Good luck - give ashout if you need any additional information...

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Sabotloader, thanks for the tip on the weather shroud. How long will the 20 gauge hull shroud last? I assume it would degrade after firing. Does it increase the blow back in the bolt?

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Skeeter,

With the Canadian Cabels 209 system I really don't get that much blow back, more soot and material from the primer than anything. I have made three or four of these shot gun shell primers - still have the original on the gun - haven't blown one yet on a Remington... the A&H on the other hand blows them right away. The trick is with the Winchester 20 guage is to cut the plastic off just slightly above the brass - the plastic is the thickest there and will slide on the bolt snugly.

With a Remington you already no that cleaning the bolt is part of the religion of shooting a Remington. When I am able to go to the range I shoot 20-30 shots without any problems. I am shooting 100/110 grains of t7-2f - I really like my Remingtons. In fact somebody once asked -"if money were know object" ya know for a hunter like me I would still pick the Remington SS

RE: remington 700 ml
 

sabotloader, thanks for the info. I have a number of 20 gauge hulls from my starter bird days(knew their was a reason I didn't pitch them..lol). My rem is the best inline interms of accuracy I have owned and hasn't caused me any grief what so ever.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I have a couple of questions and comments about the Remington ML with the Canadian conversion. 1) After you have taken the pin out, how do you remove the factory firing pin and install the new one. I feel like pliers are needed, but I do not want to damage the pin. 2) Why can't you use the metal (factory) weather shroud with the Canadian conversion? 3) I was able to get a one-piece breach plug from the Canadian complany, so there is no need for a breach plug and nipple. I believe it goes with their Ruger conversion. As far as this gun goes, I can not imagine a more accurate ML. I shoots far better than my capabilities.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I am not sure how this message is goin to turn out - hope it makes some sense...

RE: remington 700 ml
 

How do you unscrew the firing pin?

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Basically you need to pull back the on the firing pin clog and unscrew. It can be done with a quarter, etc. Rem also sell a bolt assmebly tool which I suggest you pick up (see below)

RE: remington 700 ml
 

How do you unscrew the firing pin out of the assembly that it is threaded in once you have removed the cross pin?

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Ruben

Once the bolt is disassenbled and the firing pin/hammer has been pushed back to allow access to the cross pin - push the cross pin out - release pressure on the spring and while holdong the metal accessory supplied with the kit grip the hammer and begin to turn it. I wrapped tape on mine and gripped it with pliers. If it is stubborn and it might be because the threads are full gum (blowback) either use some pentrating oil or drop the assembly in boiling water for awhile that shoud also release the threads. I is a normal screw pattern (lefty-loosy rity-tighty).

Post again if you are unable to get it dissasembled - I'l take some pics and e-mail them to you...

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I have hunted with muzzleloaders for 10 or more years, and have had my Remington ML700
for about 5 years or so. This year though I was sitting here in Maine in the 2nd week of December
with freezing drizzle and sleet. Up a in a tall treestand watching a funnel leaving a swamp. Cold
ice and snow was falling for hours on me and my gun. I tried to keep my hand over the breach
to eliminate water the best I could. A nice deer decided to approach my stand, and too my
surprise my gun only discharged the cap. Goodbye deer. After leaving the tree I fired more
caps without a discharge. (This is the new 209 Remington conversion) Upon dissembly I found the
powder to be very wet like spit. I have emailed Remington for advice and all they want to do is
sell me the same conversion kit. This is the first time I have been disappointed in a Remington
gun. I just ordered the 209 nipple from Cabelas, as I feel water was leaking past the Remington
nipple into my powder. If this doesn't solve the problem I am moving on to the Omega.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Downeaster,

As you can see it certainly would be possible for water to get in under the 209 primer in a Remington nipple - the Cabelas conversion will seal water out better, but I don't know that I would call it water proof. Can you use the weather shroud in your state? that will help also.

With the Cabelas conversion there is very little blow by so I make weather shrouds out of 20 guage shot gun shells, here is a picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/Wshouds2.jpg

hope this helps - could have some of that water got down the barrel?

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I've got a 700ML with #11 caps. Nice gun but I've also had the powder get wet.
I only shoot the 700 for fun now.
Now hunting with an Omega.

There are available now neoprene covers that you can put over the breach area that look like they should keep the water out.

If raining hard, I use a barrel condom on the end of the barrel. "Traditions" makes a nifty little barrel condom (their "Muzzle Mitt") part number A1330. I've also used a piece of cellophane and a rubber band over the end of the barrel. However, do not leave your gun overnight with a cover over the end of the barrel! Excessive moisture will accumulate.

Best,

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I have owned and hunted with a Remington 700 MLS .50 cal for the past five years. Topped with a Leupold Vari-X II 3x9x40 scope, I found it to be extremely accurate, and in fact, I have killed more deer with it than with all my centerfires combined. With two, 50-grain Pyrodex pellets and a 295-grain Powerbelt Aerotip bullet, I have put three shots into 5/8" at 100 yards. To me, that is outstanding accuracy for a muzzleloader. But, I have always been a little troubled with the cleaning regimen, so last year I purchased a Remington 209 primer conversion kit and a box of Triple 7 pellets.

I was not impressed with any of the changes. I found the blowback of the primer to be excessive, and I experienced many hangfires. Accuracy, needless to say, sufferred. In addition, I found the 777 to be much more difficult to clean up than the Pyrodex. It required vigorous brushing, whereas all I have to do to get rid of 99% of the Pyrodex fouling is swab the bore with hot, soapy water with some dish detergent.

I switched back to #11 caps and Pyrodex pellets. Using the weather shroud, I have never had a misfire due to contaminated powder. Only one time (this past Tuesday, actually) did I have a misfire, but that was due to the fact that I was rushing my reloading to put another shot into a buck I had wounded and the first cap had completely conformed to the inner face of the bolt striker, which caused insufficient contact on the new cap. Luckily I worked the bolt and shook out the cap remnant and the buck stayed put, allowing me to hit him again at 85 yards and putting him down for the count.

If I was a gunsmith/rifle builder, there are several things about the Remington I would change. The bolt needs to be re-worked to prevent all the blowback from entering the bolt body. You shouldn't have to break down the bolt every time you fire the gun to clean it. I would re-do the bolt screw, as it is a pain in the butt if you have it just a tad bit too tight or too loose, and the milled slot on the bolt body is sharp and can give you a nasty cut if you're not careful. I would also restock it, as that synthetic monstrosity they seat that barreled action in is horrible. A hollow, noisy hunk of junk. Why they don't offer a nice laminated stock I don't know. I much prefer a warm, laminated wood stock to cold, noisy plastic.

Other than that, it is a great blackpowder rifle. But you guys can keep the 209 primers and the 777. #11 caps and Pyrodex is all I need.

Brian

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I've had both conversions and here's my opinion.

The remington is what I bought first,because it was available at the dealer.It's easier to install because it comes with a different bolt assembly,but is also $20 more.The kit has a terrible nipple that has slots cut all the way around it.These slots allow to much spark and noise to escape,and will cause hangfires if you use 777.It also makes the nipple very hard to remove for cleaning because it'll twist in half very easy.

I recently went down to the Cabelas in WV and got their kit.It is great!The cap fit right up in the face of the bolt so it's not exposed to any weather.The nipple is solid and I have no trouble shooting the 777 pellets.The 209's are easy to remove,just bump it with your fingernail,and after firing it you just open the bolt and tip it over to the side.The remington setup,you have to actually dig the fired 209 out with a little pick.

If all this doesn't convince everyone which one to buy,I have a remington conversion kit minus the nipple that was twisted in half trying to remove it I would sell very cheap.

Just in case anyone is wondering,the cabelas nipple will not work with the remington kit.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I will second eb's experiences with 209's in the 700ml. I went the route of the cabela's kit and other then the intial install it has been smooth sailing with no issues, in fact I have yet to experience a hangfire since converting. The one's I know who went for the Rem 209 kit had the same problems as you experienced, either going back to #11's, switched to the cabela's kit or traded them off for different ML's.

I found Pyrodex not to bad to clean up either but have to say T7 is easier in my experience. I simply flush with hot water and follow up with some dry patches, she's clean!

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Skeeter, funny how things are different for everybody. Personally, I found T7 to be more difficult to clean than Pyrodex. Yeah, it stinks more, but hot water and dish soap, followed by a boiling water rinse and dry patches have always removed 100% of the fouling quickly for me. Let the barrel cool a little, then run a patch coated with Bore Butter down the spout and I'm finished.

I would be interested in trying the Cabela's conversion kit, but since I paid $$ for the Remington kit, I went back to #11 caps and will continue to use them for now. I seem to kill everything I shoot, so what the heck. Last year I killed two foxes in less than an hour with my Remington. They died facing each other no less than 15 feet apart. Made a good picture!

Brian

RE: remington 700 ml
 

BDHUNTR, I hear yeah!! One of my buds had problems using the 209 kit from rem and immediately switched back to the old 11's and pyrodex to regain his mojo..so all the power to yeah, got to do what is right for you.

Were you using bore butter with the T7? Wonder if that wasn't part of the problem?? I never have used it in my remmie and the guy I just referred to never complained about a cleaning problem just the misfires, etc that were the result of the Rem kit(also never used BB). Then both used the same Hornady 240 XTP Mag with sabot pushed by 100 grains. Just a thought!!

I agree while issues with some bolt flaws the 700 MLS has been a excellent performer in all aspects from my stand point.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

The only use of Bore Butter is A-to coat the bore after cleaning to prevent rust (I do not like to use any petroleum-based products in a muzzleloader, although I do oil the interior of the bolt with CLP); and B- I use it as a anti-seize on the breech plug and nipple threads. Before I load the rifle I run at least two dry patches down the bore to remove the Bore Butter coating, so unless that tiny bit of left-over residue has caused my T7 woes, I would have to rest the blame squarely on the T7 itself.

I am confident that my hangfires with T7 were caused by that P.O.S. Remington conversion kit. Why the heck they created that 209 primer adapter with those slots cut in it that reduces the flow of hot gas into the breech plug is beyond me. One of the reasons I have loved my Remington with #11 caps is that the flame from a #11 has a lot shorter path to the powder charge than in most other muzzleloaders. Look at the breech plugs on a Knight or T/C bolt-action and compare. I have never had a problem with my Remington and #11 caps, except for the time I did not remove all the previously spent cap (that was my error). Under normal circumstances, using #11 caps and two, 50-grain Pyrodex pellets, the shot feels as instantaneous as any of my centerfires. That quickness of ignition is what (IMHO) makes the Remington so accurate. It doesn't matter if your barrels are first-class, the trigger is adjusted to 2-1/2 lbs with no creep or overtravel, etc., etc. If you have ANY delay between the cap/primer detonation and the ignition of the main charge, the results will show on paper as larger groups. And it will also show on game, which is worse than paper!

But, I will say that I wish Remington would re-work their bolt and/or breech plugs to make 209 primer use a lot easier than it is now. You would think it is their best interest to do so.

Brian

RE: remington 700 ml
 

I bought a very early model 700ML. It was an accurate rifle but the blowback into the bolt, accompanied by the PIA procedure necessary to clean the bolt, prompted me to contact Remington about the problem. Their "response" was to state that all inline muzzleloaders have blowback.

Seemed a pretty uncaring as well as remarkarbly stupid thing to say to someone that owned their product. They were technically correct but ....... make your own analogies. I no longer own that rifle.

Still sorry I missed the 199 deal at Bass Pro.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Based on earlier posts I went ahead and ordered the conversion kit from Cabela's. I can't figure out how to install the new firing pin. I've unscrewed the original firing pin from the bolt assembly, however I can't figure out how to push back the hammer far enough to expose the firing pin. I currently have a dime in the slot which allowed me to unscrew the firing pin, but it looks like I'd need to pull the firing pin clog back much further to access the pin. How do you do this as it's under a lot of tension. Any help with this and further assembly is appreciated.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Cblainez71,

I haven't got a real good picture of what you are asking but here is what I am assuming.

You have the bolt separated into two parts, a) the bolt housing and b) the firing pin spring and rear shroud assembly.

You have pushed the orginal firing pin assembly back an have installed a dime in the slot to hold the bolt back so you can drive out the pin to allow you to unscrew the firing pin and spring.

You next install the new spring on the new hammer (firing pin) and screw that back in rear shroud until the hole in the hammer aligns with the hole in the shroud to allow you to re-install spring pin. Yes there will be some some tension encontered but by installing the round knurled tool that came with the kit you should be able to this. Once the pin is re-installed remove the dime from the slot and the hammer will move forward covering the pin and the slot in the shroud. Remove the knurled tool and reinstall assemble back into the bolt housing. Install the new nipple in the breech plug - put the bolt back into the rifle and all should be a GO.

I hope this helps - if not post again and we will get it worked out.

Good luck

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Thanks Sabotloader. Actually, I've installed a dime in the slot to hold the bolt back, but this only holds it back approx. 1/4 inch. The pin that needs to be removed is still not exposed and I'm not sure how to push the original firing pin assembly back any further - there's a lot of tension.

RE: remington 700 ml
 

Cblainez71,

Ok I think I have the picture now...

But let me asked, you do have the bolt in two pieces? you have separted the hammer. spring and rear shroud from the bolt housing? if yes - then

There should have been two tools supplied with the kit a knurled round cylinder type tool and a flat tool with a two progned fork on the end.

Place the knurled tool over the hammer and the spring and screw it to the shroud. Holding the knurled tool place the hammer on a solid surface and force compress the spring until the bolt housing is forced out of the shroud. You should see a groove on the bolt that the other tool will slide into and hold the spring compressed. Also the cross pin should now be exposed. Tap that pin out unscrew the old hammer and spring and replace all with the new parts provided. - then my other description should apply..