Bullet seating question
 

Ok, I am fairly new to muzzle loading. Only been at it 5 years or so, and never spent much time with them. Being mostly a bow hunter I figured "hey this has got to easy". Well I have missed the first deer I have shot at for the last 4 years. I could not for the life of me figure out what the problem was. After some trial and error I realized I am not seating the bullets exactly every time. I have since marked the ramrod and my consistancy has improved a great deal. My question is How important is bullet seating depth. Is it normal to get a 4 to 5" differnce in impact points from a 1/4" in bullet seating depth? My gun is a T/C black diamond using 100 grns of 777 and a 250 grn XTP bullet and 209 primers.

RE: Bullet seating question
 

777 is 15-20% stronger than regular pyro. When I used 100g of loose 777 i sprayed a few after 5-6 shots. I went down to 80g's and now I can put 3 touching at 100yds consistantly. You just need to exp. with diff load amounts & bullets until you find the right combo.

RE: Bullet seating question
 

Bullet seating is important for reasons of safety as well as accuracy. Are you swabbing between shots? Triple Se7en produces a crud ring and sometimes it feels like you have seated the projectile but in reality you have reached the crud ring.

I also have a Black Diamond XR and I can not tell you what a great shooting rifle it is. My rifle is scoped but at 100 yards it can and does shoot impressive groups...



I note you are using XTP's are these in a T/C mag express sabot with the 240 grain XTP? I shoot them with 100 grains and get excellent groups but they fall apart after 75 yards for some reason. It is like the bullet does not want to group further then that.

I have had excellent luck with the 460 grain No Excuses Conicals. I also have great luck with the Buffalo Bullet 375 grain SSB sabot combination and 100 grains of Goex FFFg. Also the 250 grain shockwaves with 100 grains of Goex FFFg shoot excellent. In that above picture of a 3"X5" index card, you will note a smaller hole to the right with a larger hole almost on top of it. I was hunting in the rain that morning and wanted to test the rifle, so I shot a 250 grain Shockwave first at the target then tried some of the No Excuses Conicals.....This is off a set of shooting sticks.

If your rifle is scoped it should be shooting under a 2" group at 100 yards. If it is open sights, I still would not be happy unless it was shooting a 3"-4" group or better. I shot the above group off shooting sticks. When I get the bench rest out and some Triple Se7en powder with those conicals it will do a lot better then that....

I would suggest marking the ramrod and make sure you reach that mark every time. Also swab between shots. I use a mixture of 50/50 isopropyl alcohol and car windshield washer fluid. I run two wet patches and then two dry ones when sighting in the rifle. Also try some other bullets. Some people are having great luck in their Diamonds shooting Powerbelts of all things. I guess it depends on the bore of the rifle...

RE: Bullet seating question
 

I shoot a 54 cal TC Renegade, with 100 gr loose pyrodex and a 435 gr maxiball.

I can easily seat the bullet to the mark on my ramrod on a clean barrel. After the first shot, it is more difficult, though not hard to reach the mark. On the third shot, it is pretty tough to reach the mark. Even if i don't get it quite there, it doesn't cause any noticeable change in POI.

After that I generally swab.

RE: Bullet seating question
 

What is this crud ring ? I use 777 and have never had a problem with this mystical "crud" ring

RE: Bullet seating question
 

The 777 crud ring seems to be more consistent with heavier bullets or at least that is what I am getting from the reports. People that shoot 250gr. bullets or lighter seem to not have the problem or only experience a little. I shoot 300gr. and heavier bullets and I get a lot of it. It forms a very hard ring just forward of the powder charge and seating a second bullet without removing the ring becomes impossible. It may also have a lot to do with the barrel and/or breechplug design. Flat faced breechplugs seem to be worse than recessed face plugs. My gun is a T/C Omega and it makes the ring with 300gr. bullets and 209 primers. It makes considerably less with rifle primers in the .25ACP conversion. I also have a Traditions Pursuit LT which has similar results. If you shoot lighter bullets and use standard primers not the 209 you may not experience the problem. If you shoot heavy bullets use 209 primers and do not have the problem; CONGRADULATIONS!!!! I hope this helps to explain the reference. It is a big enough problem for me that I am looking at alternative powder (Black Mag3) which does not produce the same fouling problems.

RE: Bullet seating question
 

I use the 245gr T/C express mags in a CVA eclipse 50cal. , loose 777 using 80 grains. The breech plug is recessed. I just had it at the range over the w/end and took 7-10 shots without doing anything other than reloading. Not one problem or sprawling bullets. This is a $100 ML. I 've seen guys on here with $200 - $400 ML's complain to no end. Guess I'll consider myself lucky !

RE: Bullet seating question
 

Triple Se7en powder creates a crud ring which is a type of barrel fowling, when you use it. The major area is where the powder meets the projectile. You are more likely to get a crud ring when loading high charges. If you load 100 grains of it and shoot a couple times, you will feel it when you swab. The good thing is if you swab between shots the build up is easy to remove and you will not notice it all that much. The other good thing is simple water will remove it. If you have not noticed a crud ring, then your lucky. All propellants will create a crud ring. Some of the fowling is much harder depending on the type of powder you shoot.

RE: Bullet seating question
 

Bullet seating is important and not doing so can change your POI. Marking your ramrod is a good move for a quick visual to ensure it is home everytime. At the range I would swab between each shot with a solution (windex, carwash fluid, etc) followed by dry patchs. This will help elimante fouling problems mentioned above, although personally I have not seen them in my rem.

Equally Ml are individuals (may say finky) they like certain things, so what might work for me won't work for others. So I would try tweaking your load and trying some different bullets with different combos, in the end you'll find the right one that produces the results you expect. I have a number of friends shooting different ML's, have found everything from bullet, powder and primer preferences that once the key was discovered untapped the potential of the gun. Long and short only way is to blow lots of smoke trying anything and everything you can think of, talking to those with similar Ml's can narrow that choice some though.

Good Luck

RE: Bullet seating question
 

plus i would be very nervous shooting one that i was not sure the bullet was fully seated, looks like you could create some pressure problems in a hurry[:-]