Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Has anyone had experience with the Lyman Great Plains Rifle? I once used a Thompson Center Renegade in .54 cal percussion, and I would like to switch to a flintlock. The Lyman Great Plains series looks like a very good, authentic Hawken style muzzleloading rifle in the traditional Hawken style.

Have I ever shot a flint before? Well, no, but practice makes perfect and I like to shoot, so I don't think it will be a big deal. I am strongly considering purchasing a new .54 cal Lyman Great Plains in flintlock for the upcoming muzzleloading season.

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Not exactly what you're looking for, but I've got a .50 cal Great Plains percussion that I bought last year. I got it all sighted in and it's a great rifle. Hunted last season with it but only had one opportunity that I can't blame the gun for:). Fit and finish on it is great, and of the different rifles I've had a chance to handle it had one of the more positive feeling locks. I did meet a guy that had the .50 cal in the flintlock version of it. He's big into blackpowder and has probably at least a dozen either sidelock percussions or flintlocks, including some much more expensive than the Lyman, and still regards it as a very accurate rifle. Check Midsouth for a decent price if you decide to go for it.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

What is Midsouth? Do you have a link for their web site?

Kenneth

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Mid South Shooters Supply

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I have one. It shoots really good and straight. I built it from a kit- if you are going this route, plan on spending months working on it, and it won't svae you any money over a finished rifle.

The only problem with mine is that its good for about 2 shots, then the ignition becomes very iffy if I don't keep the lock and flash hole very clean. I also opened up the flashhole a little on my rifle which seems to have helped somewhat. Not sure if this is typical with other flintlocks, as I don't personally know anyone, nor have I seen anyone else shooting a flintlock.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I think routinely cleaning out the flash hole is routine from what I've read about shooting flintlocks. Good to know that about the Great Plains flint rifle. I am considering buying the kit in order to save a few bucks, but if it is as you say then I'll pass and buy the completed rifle.

An article I read in an online magazine reviewing the flint version of the Great Plains stated that either the frizzen or the hammer was too far forward (i.e., inward toward the flash pan) and prevented a standard flint from striking the frizzen properly. When you fasten a long flint in the hammer's jaws, then a good spark and flash was obtained. What is your experience? Have you had to use longer than normal flints?

Thanks.

Kenneth

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

The Lyman is a dandy flinter. It probably has a 1:66 or 1:70 twist which would be an excellent roundball shooter.
Briman - As far as the flash hole bocking up - Do you use oil or any other petroleum based products in the bore or on the frizzen. This will combine with the burnt BP to create a tar like film. Real messy. Use a natrural lube after a good hot water cleaning in the bore and coat only the outside of the barrel with a quality gun oil. Keep any oil off your frizzen, fling and pan.
The old timers never had this type of fouling cause they didn't use oil. Their lubes were natural, usually mad of animal fat, most often bear fat.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Bronko22000, did you have problems with the hammer directing the spark into the flashpan from the frizzen? Maybe Lyman has corrected the problem.

The Lyman web site lists the flint rifle as also being available in a tighter twist for sabot type bullets, 1 in 32 inches I believe. While I enjoyed shooting my old .54 cal percussion rifle with round balls, and took an old doe one season (quickest kill I ever saw---range was 60 yards, the deer did an about face and hit the ground and never moved from a neck shot. I suppose Elmer Keith has a point about large, slow moving bullets), I think I will opt for the 1 in 32 inch twist and shoot sabot type bullets.

I wonder if Pyrodex will give adequate performance in a flint rifle. I am aware that 4F finely grained powder is preferred for the flash pan.

Thanks for the help guys.

Kenneth

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Great Plains flintlock ... GOOD CHOICE!!

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

The kit has all inletting done on the stock, and from what I can see, it is more of an assembly and finishing job than a "rifle building project". This one took me six months, built from scratch except for the barrel, which is from Green River Rifle Works (now located in Australia....)! Cal. 58 - shoots the Lyman 57730 570-grain Minie ball with 120 grains of FFg real well, as well as a .570" patched RB w/ same charge. 1/60" twist.



Cherry stock, silver mountings, fixed sight. POI @ 100 yards for Minie and RB turned out to be the same, for some reason???

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I am presuming from the lack of response to my question that no one who has a Lyman Great Plains Flintlock rifle is experiencing the problem noted by the author of the article on the Lyman Great Plains flint rifle. The problem, he stated, was the frizzen was angled in such a way that the flint had to be moved forward in the hammer's jaws or turned upside down in order to provide adequate striking surface and direct the spark down to the flash pan. The hammer would apparently strike the frizzen without the flint having struck the frizzen adequately to flash the pan. I don't know. Maybe he put together a kit and did something weird with his lock while fitting it to the stock.

At any rate, I am glad to know no one responding in this discussion has experienced that problem. My next rifle will be a .54 cal Lyman Great Plains Rifle. I think Samuel Hawken is smiling about my choice, and probably thinks it's a good one.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I think you'll like the Great Plains. You didn't say which barrel you're getting, but the regular Great Plains is a 1:60" twist, which is quite accurate with roundball (and is the barrel that I have), and the Hunter is a 1:32" twist, better for more modern sabot style loads. One thing to pay attention to is the owners manual. They specify a max of 70gr of FFF and 90gr FF for .50cal roundball and 80gr FFF and 100gr FF for .54cal roundball. If you choose to use a maxi ball instead take 10gr off each of those max powder charges. Enjoy!

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

It's coming back to me now. I recall that those are almost identical to the recommendations which Thompson Center had for their Renegade .54 percussion rifle.

I recall, after several years, that I really enjoyed shooting round balls. Not sure why, maybe they were more accurate than the Maxis I used. It makes a little more sense to go ahead and get the 1:32" rifling and use sabot type bullets like Maxi balls. That doe I shot probably couldn't have hit the ground faster if I had shot her with a Maxi though.

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

One last question, but it pertains to flintlock shooting technique in general rather than to the Lyman Great Plains rifle in particular: how much 4f blackpowder goes in the flash pan?

Related to that, are there measuring devices that will give you a charge of the right amount of powder for the flash pan based on volume?

Also, will blackpowder substitutes work in a blackpowder rifle? That is, does Pyrodex become ignited from a flashpan ignition? Will Pyrodex and other substitutes work in the flashpan itself?

Thanks.

Kenneth Smith

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

A pan charger will dispense about 3 gr of powder per push. Sometimes it is more or less, and you may have to give it a little more or stop pouring it in and dump a little. I tap mine to loosen up the powder, push in the plunger and release while still holding my finger on the hole. Then move your finger and pour the charge in the pan. Then I give the gun a little side to side shake to put the powder against the hole and distribute it in the pan.

Substitutes may work in the pan, in the most ideal conditions, but the guys who are experienced on this board told me that it is unreliable to use substitutes in the pan. Blackpowder ignites at a lower temp and catches from sparks much better than the others. With low humidity, the very best spark and a little luck, substitutes MAY ignite in the pan.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

To a certain degree. Lyman doesn't send you a Block of wood to carve a stock out of, but doesg give you a stock that is carved, and partially inletted. I had to finish the inletting for the barrel channel, lock, tang, estachions (sp?),trigger guard, and most difficult of all, the buttplate. Other brands can be put together by simply screwing the parts together, but Lymans take quite a bit of fitting and inletting to even start thinking about putting together. The metal parts except the barrel are rough cast, so you also have to file and polish them smooth before you brown or blue them- there arn't any brass parts like on other brands of MLs. There are upsides and downsides to the kit. On the upside, you get to learn alot about metal finishing and inletting, and you can fit the furniture to the stock tightly and smoothly to get a quality look. On the downside, its not a project for a novice, for someone who doesn't have alot of time, and if it isn't done very carefully, the gun will not look well.


Lyman frizzen- I've been using cut Agate flints as I haven't bothered to source out any englich knapped flints yet. I just set the flints in and lay it up against the frizzen so that it touches the frizzen 1/2 up and tighten them down. They do throw good sparks, and there is never a problem with igniting the priming charge.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

That is a truly beautiful rifle. I have a couple of modern rifles, but for some reason a flinter just looks better than a modern rifle.

I don't think I will build mine from a kit, however, thanks to input from this board. I would like to do that one day, but not when deer season is approaching!

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I appreciate the feedback. Everyone who has contributed to this discussion who actually has a Lyman Great Plains Flint rifle has not had the ignition problem mentioned in that article. That is very good news to me.

Kenneth

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Check out the components page at "The Hawken Shop" for a very useful looking flinters tool. The tool includes a device to clear out the breech hole near the flash pan.

http://www.thehawkenshop.com/misccomponent.asp

A write-up on the tool is on this page: http://www.thehawkenshop.com/catalog5.htm

I would think it would be an indispensable addition to a flinters possibles bag.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

caionneach - I never knew lyman had such a "problem" with their frizzens. In fact, I have replaced my T/C frizzens with Lymans. All it takes is a bit of grinding around the screw hole. I have better ignition and longer frizzen life with the Lymans.
Back to your question, the lyman is a good choice.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I pulled the article up through Google.com <http://www.google.com/> when I was researching flintlock rifles. I'll do the search again to try to find the article and post the link to this discussion board.

Another general type muzzleloader question: which caliber gives better long range trajectory? I really like the .54 caliber and I plan to go with that, but my father in law is really partial to his Thompson Center .45 percussion, which he says has a flatter and longer range trajectory.

Thanks.

Kenneth

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

With roundball rifles, there is not a huge difference in trajectory. They are all 100 to 150 yards rifles, for the most part, in terms of practical accuracy and proformance on game. Shooting conicals, the .45 will have an advantage over a .54 in any practical bullet weight.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

That's what I thought, but I haven't seen any ballistic tables comparing the various black powder loads and bullets. I bet Lyman's Blackpowder Handbook lists those comparisons. But even if the .45 is a flatter shooting conical bullet, I still favor .54 cal because of the Elmer Keith principle of ballistics.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

A .45 conical, in any reasonable weight, is going to have a huge ballistic advantage (ballistic co-efecient) over a reasonable weight .54 conical. Terminal ballistics would tend to favor the .45 in terms of sectional density as well. You COULD simply scale up a .45 to a .54 and give it a similar BC and SD, but it would be one heavy, hard kicking SOB!

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Is that not what most of the conical bullets do? My old TC Maxi balls look like a scaled-up version of the .45 Maxi. Do not the .50 and .54 Maxis have a greater terminal energy retention than the .45?

Looks like I need to go ahead and purchase Lyman's Blackpowder Handbook.

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, LA

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Another question I hope you muzzleloading veterans can answer: How do I properly protect the muzzle of the rifle to ensure accuracy?

I once owned a T/C Renegage in .54 cal and the barrel quit grouping consistently. Not sure why, as I've stated in another thread on this board. I am posting the question here because the failure of my Renegade caused me to give up the muzzleloading "hobby" for a few years, and I truly enjoyed shooting that rifle. I had eventually switched to blackpowder only and I only shot round balls I had made from my Lee mould. I routinely used "modern" lubricants to protect the rifle and the bore. Any ideas? I don't want that to happen to the Lyman flint rifle.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

f you are shooting a GP flintlock, your rifling twist is roughly 1:66 which probably isn't going to work very well with conicals. You can buy a seperate barrel from lyman with a 1:48 rifling for conicals though.

A .54 and a .45 are two entirely different ballgames.

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

Just put my order in for the Lyman Great Plains Flint rifle in .54 cal, and the 1-60" rifling. The Lyman site has the 1-32" rifled barrel for sale too, and I will probably add that barrel to shoot conicals.

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana

RE: Lyman Great Plains Flintlock Rifle
 

I am now the proud owner of a new Lyman Great Plains flintlock rifle. Fit and finish are quite good, though it needs a thorough de-greasing now.

I am very new to flintlocks. Now the fun part begins!

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana