Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
09-09-2004, 02:30 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wish I lived in S.Dakota
Posts: 202
Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
I have a new TC Omega .50 cal. This is my first muzzleloader so this may be a dumb question. After I shoot the first round, I can't get the bullet seated as far down for the second shot. It seems due to powder reminanace from the first shot.
I marked the rod for 100gr. of triple seven pellets and a Powerbelt bullet.
After I took the niple plug out and ran a patch through the barrel then the bullet seated down to the level of the first round.
Am I doing something wrong or do I have to run a pad through after everytime I shoot?
I would assume that if the bullet is seated at different depths in the barrel it won't group consistently?
Any and all help is much appreciated !!!!
-Mathewsconquest2
I marked the rod for 100gr. of triple seven pellets and a Powerbelt bullet.
After I took the niple plug out and ran a patch through the barrel then the bullet seated down to the level of the first round.
Am I doing something wrong or do I have to run a pad through after everytime I shoot?
I would assume that if the bullet is seated at different depths in the barrel it won't group consistently?
Any and all help is much appreciated !!!!
-Mathewsconquest2
09-09-2004, 02:48 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
Mix yourself some 50% isopropyl alcohol and 50% windex or windsheild washer fluid as your bore swabbing compound. Then buy a pack or two of cheap patches (or cut up some old cotton socks if you have some around). Wal Mart sells cheap patches. There are also some pre-cut patches. In fact our Wal Mart has been selling some pre-cut pre-soaked Rusty Duck Black Off patches. Rusty Duck solvent really pulls fowling out of the barrel, but the homemade stuff will do the same.
Since you are shooting Triple Se7en pellets, pure water will work as a swabbing solution. The reason I use the other mixture is because of the alcohol, it tends to dry itself faster in the barrel.
Before you load your rifle, wet a patch and using your cleaning rod tip, work that patch up and down the barrel in short distances, getting longer and longer until you have reached all the way to the breech. Pull that patch out and turn it over and work it through the barrel again. Then a dry patch. Now load and shoot your rifle.
This is when you need to repeat the procedure of swabbing the barrel as you did before before you load your next shot. After done swabbing then load the second shot.
The one thing that bothers me is a powerbelt is a kind of slip fit projectile. This means they load really easy, even in a dirty bore. I am sure you have cleaned the rifle of all oils and grease before the first loading, so there has to be a reason for the excessive fowling buildup. The powder your shooting is not excessive and should not be fowling out the rifle. I have shot up to five loads without fowling.
Be sure and get yourself a good strong range rod for work on the range. Some of those that come with the rifle are a little on the small size. Although I feel they should be strong enough to do the job, after all your going to take them into the woods....
Since you are shooting Triple Se7en pellets, pure water will work as a swabbing solution. The reason I use the other mixture is because of the alcohol, it tends to dry itself faster in the barrel.
Before you load your rifle, wet a patch and using your cleaning rod tip, work that patch up and down the barrel in short distances, getting longer and longer until you have reached all the way to the breech. Pull that patch out and turn it over and work it through the barrel again. Then a dry patch. Now load and shoot your rifle.
This is when you need to repeat the procedure of swabbing the barrel as you did before before you load your next shot. After done swabbing then load the second shot.
The one thing that bothers me is a powerbelt is a kind of slip fit projectile. This means they load really easy, even in a dirty bore. I am sure you have cleaned the rifle of all oils and grease before the first loading, so there has to be a reason for the excessive fowling buildup. The powder your shooting is not excessive and should not be fowling out the rifle. I have shot up to five loads without fowling.
Be sure and get yourself a good strong range rod for work on the range. Some of those that come with the rifle are a little on the small size. Although I feel they should be strong enough to do the job, after all your going to take them into the woods....
09-09-2004, 03:14 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
One other thought on this after posting....
When you first got the rifle and cleaned it before you took it to the range, did you use a bore brush and some quality solvents and scrub the bore? The reason I ask is sometimes the new rifles are packed with a thick protective grease that has to be scrubbed to removed.
You might want to take your rifle and using a bore brush and some good bore solvent, scrub the devil out of the rifle barrel. After that put a cleaning jag on and using clean patches run alcohol patches through the barrel until you are sure there is no gunk in there. Even the new rifles look clean will sometimes fool you. If you failed to get this stuff out, there could be a build up in the rifling and therefore once you shoot the rifle, the fowling is left much thicker in the barrel making loading harder.
You might also want to get some JB Bore Paste and scrub the bore with that stuff. It is an excellent cleaner and will knock all the little imperfections out of the barrel. The only other throught is you might have got an undersized bore. I sure this does happen and in this case all you could do is contact Thompson Center to fix the problem......
When you first got the rifle and cleaned it before you took it to the range, did you use a bore brush and some quality solvents and scrub the bore? The reason I ask is sometimes the new rifles are packed with a thick protective grease that has to be scrubbed to removed.
You might want to take your rifle and using a bore brush and some good bore solvent, scrub the devil out of the rifle barrel. After that put a cleaning jag on and using clean patches run alcohol patches through the barrel until you are sure there is no gunk in there. Even the new rifles look clean will sometimes fool you. If you failed to get this stuff out, there could be a build up in the rifling and therefore once you shoot the rifle, the fowling is left much thicker in the barrel making loading harder.
You might also want to get some JB Bore Paste and scrub the bore with that stuff. It is an excellent cleaner and will knock all the little imperfections out of the barrel. The only other throught is you might have got an undersized bore. I sure this does happen and in this case all you could do is contact Thompson Center to fix the problem......
09-09-2004, 08:04 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
I too am new to this and I too notice that with each successive shot it gets harder to seat a bullet. As you, I too use powerbelts and 777, except I use loose powder. I have shot 8 loads before it became near impossible to seat the projectile to the exact same depth. They went down the bore easy enough but the last half inch was hard, but not impossible. I had to put some muscle in it, but it went. When I clean the gun I notice a crud of sorts in the breech plug only. It obviously takes up more room each shot and that is why the bullet seats higher each time. Cayugad gives great advice and has more experience than me, so no need to reiterate his comments. I just wonder if there is a way to clean the breech area more thorough. With a cleaning jag you really can't scrub down there because you can't rotate the rod. Anyone have any advice on this, I 'd like to hear it.
09-10-2004, 06:56 AM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
I too am am new to blackpowder. Seems i have read about something described as a "crud ring" is this model of rifle. Is this common with this model or do all rifles have the build up near the breech plug? Love this forum, learning a lot.
09-10-2004, 07:07 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sardis ms USA
Posts: 561
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
i have never used 777,but if i don't clean my barrel after each shot with pyrodex pellets,my shot groups are terrible.as long as i run an alcohol patch then a clean one behind it,i get good groups.when i tried shooting as long as i could seat a bullet,my groups were all over the target.i shoot a knight LK-93.
09-10-2004, 07:54 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
To reduce the crud ring, buy FFF or (P)-pistol powders. Also buy cooler 209 primers. The easiest to find cool 209 primer is CCI ... not CCI-M (magnum). Many stores keep them behind the gun counter. You must ask for them sometimes.
I swab every 2nd shot using up-to 110 grains 777 FFF with the CCI primers... no crud ring in my Omega. This also gives me a better target reading because quick 2nd shots are sometimes needed while hunting. If you are using 120 grains or more of Pyrodex (or) more than 110 grains of 777, you should carry an extra two patches while hunting. .. one spit patch/one dry patch.
I swab every 2nd shot using up-to 110 grains 777 FFF with the CCI primers... no crud ring in my Omega. This also gives me a better target reading because quick 2nd shots are sometimes needed while hunting. If you are using 120 grains or more of Pyrodex (or) more than 110 grains of 777, you should carry an extra two patches while hunting. .. one spit patch/one dry patch.
09-10-2004, 08:41 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
1. Am I doing something wrong or do I have to run a pad through after everytime I shoot?
2. I would assume that if the bullet is seated at different depths in the barrel it won't group consistently?
2. No, it won't (group consistently) In addition, airspace between powder and bullet can [b]ring a barrel, or burst it!!
09-15-2004, 12:29 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
RE: Rookie Muzzleloader question-frustrated !!
I need to ask a question of all you guys?
How are you cleaning your MLs? You shouldn't be using any petroleum based products in them. The petroleum breaks down and gums up with black powder or a bp substitute.
All my Mls (even my in-line) are cleaned with hot soapy water, hot clean water flush, bp solvent such as Butch's of T/C #13 and then the bore coated with Natural Lube / bore butter.
I never have excessive fouling. I do clean the bore at the range with bp solvent after every 3rd shot if I'm trying out a new bullet. This is only for accuracy reasons.
If I'm just playing, I just keep on loading and shooting. Maybe running a brass brush down the barrel about every 5th shot or so.
I will try that alcohol/windex solution though. It sounds like it would work well.
How are you cleaning your MLs? You shouldn't be using any petroleum based products in them. The petroleum breaks down and gums up with black powder or a bp substitute.
All my Mls (even my in-line) are cleaned with hot soapy water, hot clean water flush, bp solvent such as Butch's of T/C #13 and then the bore coated with Natural Lube / bore butter.
I never have excessive fouling. I do clean the bore at the range with bp solvent after every 3rd shot if I'm trying out a new bullet. This is only for accuracy reasons.
If I'm just playing, I just keep on loading and shooting. Maybe running a brass brush down the barrel about every 5th shot or so.
I will try that alcohol/windex solution though. It sounds like it would work well.