Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I will be buying Hawken this year and was wondering what works for lead in it. Will I have to use balls or can I use conicals? Do sabots work (probably not due to the twist). Is it better to buy factory bullets or make your own?

thanks for you assistance
Eric

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I would go with conicals like buffalo's or even maxiballs would shoot great out of that gun.Sabots tend to shoot a little eratic out of a slow twist barrel like that one,although a friend of mine shoots powerbelts out of his hawk with good results.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I've been using a houseful of TC Hawkens for years, patched round balls are outstanding in them, and are all I use anymore for year round practice and deer hunting every fall.

50grns Goex FFFg (or 70grns PyrodexRS) - Target loads
90grns Goex FFFg (or 120grns PyrodexRS) - Hunting loads

Oxyoke wonder wads
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking patches
Hornady (or Speer) .490 balls

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

last week I was shooting my T/C .50 caliber Hawkins flintlock. As always, it shot the roundball with 65 grains of Goex FFFg excellent. I then switched over to try some 370 grain maxiball and was very surprised how well it shot them with 65 grains of Goex FFFg.

What you're going to have to do it try your rifle with a few different loads and find out what it likes best. I would start with roundballs. The guidelines offered by Roundball should put you in the ball park.

That is a nice rifle....

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

For ease of loading I would go with conicals. Patches are just one more thing to think about. I know you can get packages of correctly sized patches for certain diameter roundballs from T/C, so you should be able to get the right combo easily enough. BUT, conicals are just easier to deal with IMO. I have owned several T/C hammer guns and they all shot maxiballs real well. Other conicals have been hit or miss. Never tried Powerbelts.

I do make my own bullets. It is far cheaper, but you do need reasonably pure lead. Wheelweights will not work. If you go the roundball route, you may be able to change patch thickness with different batches of bullets, if your lead source/purity changes. The more alloy you have, the larger the bullets tend to be. Pure lead shrinks the most as it hardens, and the molds are made for the shrinkage rate of pure lead.

Many years ago I made a batch of maxiballs from wheelweights, and the bullets were so oversized that it was nearly impossible to load one. Those got converted into fishing weights.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

Thanks to you all. I was wondering if that was a nice rifle to get and it sounds like it is. I get pure lead from the dentist my wife works for that they would normally throw away. God I wish she was the dentist so I could afford more toys.

Great hunting to you all this fall.

Eric

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

A Thompson Center Hawkins is a much sought after rifle by many Black Powder shooters. Besides being a great shooting rifle for the most part, if you want to make it into a super roundball shooter, get yourself a Green Mountain Drop in Barrel in 1:70 twist. Depending on the size of the flats, you can get a .54 caliber in the 15/16th range and a .58 caliber in the 1" flats. Both have teriffic knock down and very accurate. I have a .58 caliber Green Mountain Barrel and a .62 caliber that fit into my rifle.

Enjoy your rifle..... T/C has a great warranty and customer service department should you ever need assistance with anything.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

Your T/C Hawkin more than likely has a 1:48 twist. This is a "middle-of-the-road" twist that will shoot both round balls and conicals well, but not exceptional. I have 3 of these fine rifles in flintlock. In PA where I live, up until a few years ago you could only use a round ball. Since then, any projectile is legal. I find that one shoots the Lee REAL bullet (250 gr) well, while the other prefers T/C 275 gr Maxi-Hunters. The last rifle, I purchased a Green Mountain Long Range Hunter barrel with a 1:28 twist and shoot 245 gr Powerbelts out of it.
Be forewarned about using too light a load. IMO and bad experience, 65 gr of FFFg is too light for deer. In my early ML years, I shot one of the biggest buck I ever saw in the woods (and that's a lot) with a patched round ball and 70 gr of FFFg. My best guess is that the shot was a bit too far forward and smacked into the shoulder. I knocked every loose hair off that deer, or so it appeared in the snow. Tracked him for 1/2 a mile and only 3 or 4 drops of blood. Never did get him. With a 50 cal, I would start with 80 grs. and work up from there to 100 grs. More than 100 grs, your just blowing unburned powder out the barrel. Since then, I have taken about 6 deer with my MLs. I just love being out there in the dead of winter. Alone with nature and your thoughts. Have fun.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

bronko22000 said, I would have to disagree with that statement somewhat. Although 1:48 is not considered the best twist out there for roundball, 1:70 being much better, some of the 1:48 twist rifles are exceptional roundball shooting rifles. I have two Hawkin's style rifles with 1:48 twist that shoot roundball so well, it is all I use in them. Last year three deer fell to one of the described rifles. The roundball functioned perfect as a hunting load. I will admit the furthest deer was only 60 steps, but the roundball dropped it where it stood.

I personally think the roundball is the most underestimated projectile on the muzzleloading market. They obtain good speed. As lethal as anything if your shot is placed properly out to 100 yards and in some cases better then 100 yards. (granted caliber of roundball does make a difference in some cases). They can do tremendous internal organ damage in most thin skinned animals. And are inexpensive to shoot compared to other projectiles.

The only way to really tell if you have a good roundball or conical shooting rifle is to try them. Work up your loads and be able to place your shots.

Everyone remembers one kind of projectile that really did not perform well for them. Mine was a small sabot. I forget the kind or even weight. When sabots first came out many years ago, I bought some and got them shooting very well out of my T/C Renegade with the 1:48 twist. I shot a small buck that year at about 40 yards. I knew the shot was well placed. Well the buck took the hit and ran off like I had missed. After checking and tracking I found that deer about 200 yards from where it was first shot. I later learned that the sabot had never opened at all. It punched a hole through the lungs of the deer and lodged in the opposite shoulder blade. It was the last year I ever shot them. I went back to conicals and roundball after that.

Now here I am about to try sabots all over again.... Patching and lube will also make a difference in how well your rifle shoots roundball. There are a lot of them out there....

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

All my TC Hawken barrels regardles if 1:48" or 1:66", percussion or flint, are very accurate round ball shooters with target and full power hunting loads

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I bought a TC Hawken also and after almost giving up ML shooting I stopped with balls and switched to Buffalo bullets and 100 gr of Goex. It changed my accuracy from not being able to hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards to baseball size groups at up to 100 yds.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

cayugad and roundball - I agree with you both. What I should have said is that the 1:48 twist isn't the most ideal twist for a roundball. My T/Cs shot the ball very well also. But now that it is legal here, I much prefer the conicals.
Besides, playing with different bullets/charges is a lot of fun. The only problem I have with that is explaining to my wife why sometimes my Explorer smells like rotten eggs.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I also have a TC Hawkin .54 / I have hunted with this gun since the earley 80's and have only shot the round ball. I have taked many elk and mule deer with this set up and although it won't drop an elk like a deer it still does the job.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

i have a T/C hawken in .50 and have good groups with round balls and T/C's cheap shot sabots in it's 1/48" barrel that you should have also....and have heard from people that hornadys great plains conicals will work good also.......................bob

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

gelarson,
I have had my T/C .50 Hawken since the early 80's. I have shot many different projectiles through mine, and I have settled in on a few that really shoot very well. I have a Green Mountain 1-70 twist round ball barrel that shoots a round ball great no matter what charge you put in it, but my 1-48 twist barrel starts to spread groups somewhat after about 80 gr. of FFG goex.

I have two favorite conicles. The 370 gr. T/C maxiball is very accurate, but a few years back I was trying to work up true power load, and I discovered the No-Excuses .50 460gr. conicle. You might think it is too long for the rate of twist in a 1-48, but it is probably the most accurate projectile I have found. I use 85 gr. of FFG Goex blackpowder, and I shot a young buck at about 10 steps this last deer season. Needless to say, 460 gr. of lead had no problem penetrating the young deer. I know it is a bit overkill for a whitetail, but the accuracy is amazing.

Here is the link for the No-Excuses bullet.
http://members.aol.com/noexcusesb/page3.html

C. Davis

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

Bob,
I forgot about the Hornady Great Plains conicles. My gun shoots those really well too. One bullet my gun does not shoot well is the Buffalo Bullet. My dad's Hawken shoots the Buffalo bullet great, but my gun never has. If I remember right, that bullet came in 385 gr.

C. Davis

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

TYC designed the Maxi Ball for that rifle. It works well!!

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I once owned a TC Renegage in .54 cal percussion, and eventually the barrel stopped shooting the tight groups to whichI was accustomed. Not sure why. I made my own balls from a Lee mould, but I also used .54 cal T/C Maxi Balls, and I tried to be meticulous about ensuring the rifle and bore were protected with rust preventive lubricants.

It grouped more like a shotgun blast, shot to shot, one year after several months in storage. I quit using it as a result. But I'm considering getting back into the muzzleloading hunt with a Lyman Great Plains flinter in .54 calibre.

I guess my question is how do I avoid this happening again with my new muzzleloader? I know I used wheel weights at times in making my round balls, so I'm wondering if my wheel weight made round balls made the barrel go bad or the "modern" lubricants I used. I am presuming the T/C Maxis were pure lead.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

caionneach... who knows? I may have become the proud owner of that 54 Renegade you discarded. Many shooters are just like you -- in that they don't have any clues as to why their gun suddenly stopped being accurate. So instead of searching for the answers, they opt to buy another ML. Well... that's where I say "Thank You Very Much"

I constantly buy & sell Renegades & Hawkens from internet sources. Shooters sell them... sometimes give them away thinking the barrel is shot. I love all those soap & water bore users who go out & buy new rifles that end up being inferior to the one they just sold for $95 -- thinkin' it only had a good lock, trigger, couple scratches in the wood.... so it can't be worth dickens.

Keep em' comin' boys.... many times for only $4, I can turn that bore completely around into a wonderful shooter again.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

OK---you win. Now let me in on your secret! BTW, I still have that old Renegade, originally purchased in 1981......somewhere. My father-in-law is a "shade tree" gunsmith of sorts, and likely has it. At any rate, I'm very interested in what you do to restore the bore. I took good care of that rifle. Beats me why it started grouping in an erratic manner.

Kenneth

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

The concern with wheelweight lead for a roundball is not really the hardness, as the metal does not touch the sides of the bore. It is more the size of the ball that you get. It will be oversized compared to a pure lead ball from the same mould. If they loaded well with the patches you were using, I don't think that was the problem. Can't see how a modern lubricant would be at fault either, even with maxiballs.

I think T7's $4 cure has to do with a cleaning agent. Can't do much else for $4 these days.

I know when I clean my Renegade with #13 solvent, then soap and water, my patches come out real clean after a few. Then I pour boiling hot water bown the bore until it starts coming back out the muzzle, continuing to pour until the teapot is empty. When it drains through the nipple hole fully, that barrel is HOT!! Then I run patches though it and they come out Filthy! So, unless you were careful to get the crud out over the years, there's probably some crud in yours that is not helping accuracy any.

Well T7, was I close?

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I think T7 nailed my cleaning technique: hot soap and water (boiling); dry the barrel with a hair dryer to ensure all the water was gone, then use an oiled patch to displace any remaining water. Follow up with a cleaning solvent and repeat until the patch returns clean. Follow that with a dry patch to remove the excess, then a rust preventive lubricant. Did that religiously.

Maybe that's the problem: a buildup of blackpowder crud encased in lubricant!

Kenneth Smith

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

Triple 7, speak up now on restoring the bore.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

Here's one thing I will say about your cleaning technique. You say you use a powder solvent and then oil. If you're talking about a smokeless solvent along the lines of Hoppes #9, then you may or may not have been getting the crud out. I can't say for sure how you were applying it. What I do know about all petroleum based products is they do react with BP and substitutes to create more crud than vegetable based products.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I am sure that the wheelweight bullets didn't ruin your accuracy! However, it is difficult to load bullets made with anything except plain pure soft lead! Some of these lubricants can crap up a bore, however, and produce declining accuracy. Bore Butter is one of these, or anything like it is bad news. For shooting Maxiballs, I just use one of the barely-lubricated, dry-to the touch felt Wonder Wadfs under the bullet with no other lube at all. I get good accuracy with no leading up to a MV of 1875 FPS, which is the fastest I've ever been able to get one of these bullets to go with accuracy.

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

I don't really know what T7 is talking about, exactly, but I have cleaned my two Hawkens a number of different ways since I bought them in 1969, including using 2 quarts of boiling water each cleanup followed by two or three dry patches and one dampened with Sheath, and believe me, the boiling water method gets ALL the fouling, no matter whether BP or one of the substitutes, out of a barrel better than any other method. These two guns, both with Bill Large barrels, shoot as well today as they did 35 years ago!

RE: Bullets for a 50 cal Hawkin TC replica
 

WOW talk about stiring up a hornets nest! I am glad to see that people here are able to take constructive critiquing. I gained alot of knowledge from everyones replies and I may have to read them all again and make notes.

I pick up the rifle this week

thanks agains to all of you
Eric