Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

I at the Present, have a Brass, Knight Powder Measurer, along with a Sliding Stem, on the Powder Metering Unit, that is Calibrated in 10 Grains by Volume Marks. Ive Checked what the Knight System is Throwing, by using The Clear Thompson Center Powder Measuring Device, and the Knight is Off by 10 Grains, Consistently. What do you Consider the Most Accurate Measurer for Measuring by Volume. Name and Company Please. Thank's!

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

First off, a beam scale is the most accurate followed by an electronic scale with any volume scale coming in last.

I own a couple of the Knight ones. A Thompson, and a couple CVA versions. All 4 styles give me different amounts for the same grain listing. I'm thinking the Knights are the most conservative and the Thompson is the most extreme. The CVA's are middling. A moot point for me anymore as all my charges are weighed. I work up a load with volumetric charges then weigh 10 of what's most accurate on my scale. I average the results and that's my powder charge. For example, 100 gr of 777 ffg by volume equals 80 gr by weight. I then adjust sights with the weighed charge. Of course I am a little off the wall. I've been weighing my bullets and sabots too.:eek: Still my results are good.



Edited for clarification.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

I personally like the heavy duty one made by Thompson Center. The clear plastic with the charge cutting funnel seems to be the best one in my opinion.

I have thought about getting a scale like Wolfhound and measuring my charges and projectiles also. I just have not got around to that yet.

By the way Wolfhound ..... that is an impressive group you shot there...

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

I too have noticed there are variances between different manufacturers so I decided to standardize on TC's adjustable brass measures and use them exclusively..
While a particular charge might actually be something slightly different from the setting, as long as I set up, zero, and only use those measures, I'm consistent.

I also have good quality weight scales for my centerfire rifle and handgun reloading, but have made the concious decision not to "moderernize" my muzzleloading hobby by using those kinds of approaches for basic things. I've got a safe full of top quality rifles with high end Leupold scopes that shoot bullseyes at distance all day long...been there, done that...no challenge any more.

I'm not a purist and don't wear period correct clothes or any of that ...but I at least want to live by a few of the blackpowder basics like staying with volume measures, black english flints, real black powder, patched round balls, etc, etc, like our forefathers did...no better sense of accomplishment than to lay a flintlock back down across my lap, see the smoke curl up out of the vent, with a nice big 8 pointer laying in the leaves 50 yards away...no slam on others...just my personal choice.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Thanks. Although it's a bit more trouble, weighing does have it's advantages. I've got a nice 1 1/2" group somewhere that I shot at 183 yds. I haven't scanned it yet due to my not owning a scanner. After seing my groups tighten, I'm now a firm beliver in weighing charges.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Thanks Wolfhound! I also Hand Weigh my Charges, but im getting a Different Reading of Volume, to Weight into Grains on the Scale. My Knight is Showing a 25% Decrease, between Volume, and Scaled Weight. My New Thompson is Showing a 15% Decrease between Volume, and Scaled Weight. This is with Pyro P.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Ok. I must have them confused. The Knight is closer to right then. Pyrodex is aproxamately 30% less dense than blackpowder which is closer to actual gr. weight. For example 100 gr by weight of black powder is approxamately 100 gr by volume.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Ditto for me on the above! And it pays off at the range with small groups also. It's just one of the tricks towards extreme accuracy in a muzzleloader.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

I took my Suspect Knight Brass Powder Measurer Today, to a Fellow who Owns a Blackpowder Gun Shop. He checked it against his, which he Know's is Accurate, and the Knight is Throwing 10 Grains(Volume) Under what the Graduations Suggest. If anyone has One of these, Just a Reminder to go 10 over for the Charge that you are Looking for.The Thompson Center was Right on the Money ! Knight is being very Conservative !

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

What is important is CONSISTENCY from charge to charge, NOT how closely a given brand of measure comes to throwing a charge that weighs what a scale says! If you develop your accuracy loads by making, say "5-grain" changes in the charge as you work it up (or down), it doesn't matter if the most accurate charge for your rifle/bullet combination is a true 90 grains, or if it is actually 78.76 on a scale. What IS significant is how close yopu can come to reproducing that weight each time you measure out a charge. And, as you might suspect, this consistency or lack thereof depends on the OPERATOR of the powder measure, rather than who made it! IF you find yourself unable to do a creditable job of throwing consistent charges, then by all means use a powder scale! IF you are able to consistently throw charges that weigh withing 2-3 grains of one another, you are not going to get much, if any, actual improvement in accuracy if you weigh the charges to within 1/10 of a grain! This is just the nature of black powder! Please note that the old time bench and Schuetzen riflemen of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, guys like Harry Pope, used volume measures, not powder scales, to set accuracy records with BP rifles that have yet to be equalled! This is despite the fact that many owned extremely accurate beam balances that they could (and would!!) have used, had they found that doing so improved their scores.

BTW, Wolfhound. An enviable group!

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

It's good to see others that appreciate the merits of weighed charges. Combine pre-weighed charges with the tubes (such as THESE being sold near cost by one of the HA members) and you are on the road to better groups at the range.

It's sort of funny to me how well this has all caught on when there was so much rejection of the idea originally. It works.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Actually you shouldn't weigh black powder or it's replacements like pyrodex, clean shot, or 777. You should measure them by volume, not weight, it's more accurate. The weight of these powders can change with temprature and humidity. Measure 100 grns by volume and then put it on a scale, I bet it's not the same. And if you work up a load during the summer, then weigh out some charges in the winter you may get some different loads. Unless you pre weigh them in a controlled inviornment. At any rate you should check the volume weight to the measured weight to make sure they are close. This would keep you from having an accidental over charge.

smokeless powder is not the same, it can be measured by weight.

Paul

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

...plus...the real point of muzzleloading is the experience of a more primitve form of firearms and hunting like the early generations of settlers did...and many times they didn't have or bother with powder measures, choosing instead to use old fashioned ways of measuring powder like "covering a ball with powder in the palm of the hand", etc...crude but obviously effective...they settled the country

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

That's not why I use a muzzloader, but if you do that's cool. I use one to extend my season, and where I live we can't use centerfire rifles. It's shotguns and ML's, and in my opinion a properly loaded inline ML is better than most slug guns. Although with some of the new ammo they are catching up. I use my ML during regular gun season. I try to hunt as effedtively as I can, not make it harder than it needs to be.

To each his own I guess, as long as you are enjoying yourself, that's the important part.

Paul

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Actually temperature alone will not affect weight. Temperature could affect volume measurements, but I've got no evidence if it does or not. Humidity can affect weight measurements as it adds mass to the powder (the mass of the water). If you keep your powder properly sealed you should not have any problem. I actually ziplock my bottles of powder when I'm not measuring. I also ziplock any quantity of premeasured powder. I use some of the vials (or similar ones at least) like what UC has posted the link to in similar containers for convienance which I also ziplock to keep moisture out. I'm a little obsessive about it.

Nope, they're not. Blackpowder is closest, but not perfect. The key to weighed charges, is weighing a thrown charge. For example, 100 gr. of 777 by volume equals 80 gr by weight. To duplicate, you simply weigh out 80 gr. on your scale. I have the wieght/volume numbers all wrote down so I do not forget the conversion.

I still use my volume measurer when weighing charges. I've got it set to throw just under what I want to get. I then trickle the last few grains onto the scale.

So can blackpowder or the subs as I've illustrated.

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

but you are doing what I suggested and know that they are different. I don't want someone to read this and think they can do it by weight alone. Like read something that says use 130 or 150 grn charge, then they measure it out on a scale instead of a volume measurer. That's an accident waiting to happen.

I've tried it both ways and didn't see a difference, it was just a pain in the butt pretty much. My remington will shoot one inch or better groups at 100 yards going by volume, so it works pretty well for me.

All of the manufactures of powder state to use volume, not weight by the way, because of the differences.

Paul

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

Whenever I list a load, I give the specs. If I'm shooting an 80 gr. load by weight I say that and add that it equals 100 gr by volume. Or I simply give the volume measurement. I do know that weighed charges is not for beginners which is why I am specific when I post such data.


For example:

Today I took my wife shooting with her Wolverine. Her load was a 295 gr powerbelt and 57 gr of 777 ffg (weight) which equals 70 gr by volume. She shot a couple decent inch groups at 50 yds with her open sights (this actually happened this morning).

RE: Most Accurate Powder Measurer ?
 

This three-shot group was fired at 100 yards on 3 SEPT 04 using home-cast 230-grain .45 caliber Maxiballs (TC mould) and 90 grains "striken measure" 777 FFg powder. Win. 209 primer in a Wm. Large-barreled Hawken rifle, 1/72" round-ball twist, with a Wonderwad under the bullet. The old-time Schuetzen and bench-rest ML rifle shooters used powder measures, despite the fact that many of them owned or had access to, precision laboratory balances. Many of the groups they shot have yet to be equalled by any BP rifle in modern times. Just take a look at Ned Roberts' book, THE MUZZLELOADIONG CAPLOCK RIFLE!!