powder vs. pellet
 

My CVA 45cal manual states that I should use " magnum Pellets " when shooting above 100 grains, also recomends double f powder.
Not that I would use 150 grains ( after reading numerous posts stating not to ) is pellet form the same as loose powder ?
I like to use triple F powder because I heard its cleaner , will I hurt my M/L using this powder ?
Why do they not to use a sabot weighing more than 300 grains but say nothing about the weight of a conical , do sabots seal that much better ?
Thanks for you help on this and my previous post ! Russ[8D]

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

When you visit the ML accessory aisle in your hunting store, you will view the difference between pellets in a box & loose powder in a jug.You can use FFF loose powders in your 45. Look for the FFF on the front label of Triple Se7en Powder. If buying Pyrodex loose, look for Pyrodex P (pistol powder). Also.... sabot/bullets create more bore pressure than conicals -- that's why CVA allows 400 with conicals/300 with sabot/bullets.

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

A word of warning...loose Triple Se7en in FFFg strength is much greater then pellets. Be sure to adjust your loads according to the strength of the powder your using.[ Normal loose powder Triple Se7en in FFg is 15% stronger then Goex FFg, Pyrodex, Pyrodex pellets, or Triple Se7en Pellets. Do not put 150 grains of loose Triple Se7en whether FFg or FFFg in your muzzleloader. The barrel pressures could damage your rifle and you also. Further if you are changing your powder then from Triple Se7en FFg to FFFg this is also presents a power difference you must take into consideration to avoid damage to you and your rifle.

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

I will second this. I was getting a wollop out of 120gr of 777 compared to 3 777 pellets. Much more recoil.

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

I just got some 460 " No Excuse " Bullets will these damage my rifle do you think ?

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

They should work real good in your rifle. Just make sure you do not put a lot of powder behind them. I shoot the 460 grain out of my .50 caliber with 80 grains of Goex FFFg or Pyrodex P and get fantastic groups. The next time I want to try putting a wonder wad under them. I heard it made better groups but actually I shot six 460 grain No Excuse conicals into a one in square box (would have covered the group) at 35 yards. At 50 yards that opened to an inch and a quarter. I have not had a chance to get back to 100 yards but I do expect around a two inch group....

I was shooting a T/C Black Diamond XR with a 4.5 power scope setting. I would suggest starting your load out at 70 grains of FFg and work up from there. I almost always shoot FFFg in everything .50 caliber and smaller and FFg in the .54's, .58's & .62 caliber rifles I have.

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

what has been said is right on. 777 50gr pellets have been "dumbed down" or weakened to be equal to 50gr Pyro pellets. They are NOT equal to 50gr of loose 777 - more like about 40gr of loose 777..

I've tested the 3fg 777 in my 50cal Knight and here is what I found:
1) there really is no need to reduce the charge when going to the 3fg 777---------- both the 2 & 3fg are cut so small that there is almost no difference in how they shoot.........just that the very slighty smaller grains of the 3fg tend to shoot a little more consistently. Hodgdon's load data shows less than a 100fps difference between Identical loads of 2fg & 3fg with the same bullets.
2) Lighter bullets tend to shoot WORSE groups with the 3fg powder and heavier bullets shoot better with it. In my .50cal Knight, 300gr bullets are the cutoff point - up to & including 300gr bullets get 2fg point, while my 350s and 400s get 3fg powder.
3) PowerBelts do not like 3fg 777 no matter WHAT weight you shoot. The powercheck cups won't release from the bullet and the accuracy goes to hell. I guess there is enough pressure difference with the 3fg to cause this problem.

But this is ONLY with 777 powder. For Black Powder or Pyro RS vs Pyro "P" - you BEST reduce your 3fg charges a good 10 or 15% below known 2fg charges - otherwise you might find yourself in a heap of trouble.

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

You guys are flat - out amazing !! I have gained a wealth of information from all of you that my book just did not cover ! I think I will take Dave's recommendation( from " no excuses ) and start out with 60 grains of triple 7 and work up from there. I Thank you all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unfortuneatly I'll be back with more questions soon I'm sure.:D

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

While we are on the subject. I know it has been in here a dozen times or so but what is the comparison pyrodex pellets to pyrodex powder and 777 pellets to 777 powder? is there a difference 777pellets to Pyrodex pellets?

RE: powder vs. pellet
 

pyrodex pellet and pyrodex powder FFg are supposed to be equal. Although I have read some post of people who shot 100 grains of pellets VS 100 grains of Pyrodex RS loose over a crono and the pellets tend to produce a little faster projectile. That is not to say that if you did this same experiment 100 times, each time the results would be the same.

Triple Se7en pellets and Triple Se7en loose powder FFg are not the same. The loose powder is 15% stronger then the pellets. Also Triple Se7en pellets (in a perfect world) are equal in strength to Pyrodex Pellets or 100 grains of loose Pyrodex RS. The loose Triple Se7en on the other hand, 85 grains of Triple Se7en loose would equal; 100 grains of loose Pyrodex RS, (2) 50 grain Pyrodex Pellets, or (2) Triple Se7en pellets.

To really throw a wrench into all of this we add the FFFg grade of powder which is becoming very popular with many shooters (myself included). Years ago the only time we shot the FFFg Goex was in rifles 45 caliber and under, revolvers, or as a priming powder in some of the big flinters. Now people have found that using FFFg powder in smaller amounts produces the same energy, and less fowling in many cases. For instance I shoot Goex FFFg in all my inlines and rifles .54 caliber and under except one. My T/C Renegade in .54 caliber hates FFFg when shooting roundball but does fine shooting conicals. (my notebooks are huge...:D )

FFFg grade powders tend to be 10-15% stronger then the FFg grade powders depending on the brand. Goex is a very common black powder but Swiss black powder is stronger and less is required. I believe it is 10% stronger. Pyrodex P is 15% stronger then Pyrodex RS. So when I load Goex FFFg or Pyrodex P I consider them the same strength as Triple Se7en powder in FFg. I have not shot the Triple Se7en in FFFg because to be quite honest I would not know where to start. I am guessing the Triple Se7en FFFg is about 15% stronger then the Triple Se7en FFg.

confused now...:eek: well I am...