Has innovation gone too far?
 

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/deer-hunting-gear/this-is-a-muzzleloading-game-changer

I'm not a purist by any means and I'm all for new products, and new designs etc. I shoot an inline cause it gives me some extra days in the woods. And I was able to get into it cheaply.

I've always been interested in muzzleloaders though. And I'm especially interested in PAs late flintlock only season and have tagged along with others a few times. But can't justify the cost and the time when I've got three young kiddos at home

But take a look at this.
"Federal Premium FireStick is a part of a whole new muzzleloader system that uses a primer inserted into an encapsulated powder charge. In other words, it’s a premeasured self-contained powder charge."

Sounds like a rifle to me.

-Jake

I’m no purist as well with two side locks and two inlines one with a scope. I suppose manufacturers are looking for the next thing to drive revenue.

love muzzleloading hunting. i think it's the best season out there for deer. i think i would be interested in buying this muzzleloader for ohio. yes i agree it is like a rifle & yes you must fill out a 4473 form. . just wondering how many states will ban this new style muzzleloader?. hey it would be fun to use. msrp price is around 573 kinda expensive. plus the load would cost you 2.70 each shot plus the primer & bullet. but probably the last muzzleloader i would have to buy.could be a up coming retirement present to my self

This idea was likely thought of buy someone in the engineering/design office thing about ways to utilize premeasured charges like the old paper charges or expanding on the system that uses pistol cases and primers. It sure would save on time reloading. Personally I don't think its going to last. I don't believe many will go for the idea or the cost. Those Firesticks are a one time use and I imagine will be quite expensive. I for one would not even look into buying one.

$2.70 per shot just for the powder
Probably a smokeless propellant they are trying to keep under wraps because its not going to be offered loose.
Wont be legal in any state that wont allow pellets and requires loading ONLY from the muzzle like mine.

$500+ for a form 4473 muzzleloader....Why bother when you can convert a CVA Hunter 45/70 to a ML for that $$$$s and shoot projectiles MUCH faster for MUCH less per shot?

As I said on another forum, "with this current trend, I will not be surprised if game managers in the states that have muzzle loading seasons go back to requiring "primitive side lock firearms and their reproductions"." Wouldn't bother me if they did, cause I hunt with a flint lock. Just too old fashioned i guess.

yeah got me wondering now how long will this last ? could be another savage ml deal out there lasted about 5 years & poof they were gone . but got me thinking . would be a quick reload

Poof they were gone? Savage smokeless muzzle loaders are out there for the asking as long as you got a grand or so to splurge. Haven't seen one under 800 in quite a good spell.

Boca pretty much has it right on this new firestick thing. No breech plug since the firestick acts as one. And so far, only one rifle manufacturer has a compatible rifle. I really see this as going too far. I'm also no purist. But I do tend to lean old school pretty heavily. The only "modern" muzzle loader I have was the smokeless my dad ordered just before he passed and I have to say I am quite deeply in lust with that thing. I can consistently hit my 10 inch gong at 400 yards with it but I wouldn't take it to a ML only hunt even if it was legal to do so. Just wouldn't feel right. This firestick thing would feel the same way to me. They advertise it as being consistent in the loads and while yes thats a good thing, part of traditional muzzle loader hunting was dealing with inconsistencies and overcoming the problems from them.

what i meant was poof they were gone . being discontinued . no longer made . allot of people were afraid of them with smokeless powder. blowing up due to operator error . over charging & double charging. yeah they want 800 & up when they try to sell them. thers's 1 sitting on the black powder selling site on this site that's been sitting there for over a month now. local gun shop around here has 1 for sell well over a year now he gave 800 for it & was asking a grand & now i believe he's asking 800 or best offer & still no takers .

Yes they were nice rifles and shot pretty well. But for another 800 or so you can get yourself into a much better shooting SML and call it money well spent if you are into that sort of thing. While yes I do love that SML the old man had built, I am in no way converted from my old fashioned flint and cap sidelocks. Just something about the smell of good old Swiss going off and hearing the contact of the bullet when you made a good shot on an animal.

It could not happen soon enough for me.

ain't going to happen . do you realize what kind of revenue would be lost

You're right about that Shaffer. Damn shame though.

Everyone that has been on here a while knows that I like to hunt with my sidelocks more than anything (except archery). I do use my inline on occasion but this thing here is definitely on the edge of being more like a rifle than a muzzleloader. Yea, I think its going too far. But like I said previously, it likely won't last long.

When does the Nitrofire go on sale to the public?

As far as the N fire is concerned I think the are looking for the one a minute customer.
As for the innovation that are real improvements I love them. But if they develop to much range there will be problems and then restrictions will come.

Le I agree with your first two statements but the last one...hmmmm not so much. How much more range are we talking about . There are guys on here shooting waay past what I would even consider muzzleloader range!
My concern is any of those idiotic politicians from shotgun or muzzleloader only states reading some of these forum threads and seeing someone shooting (accurately) their muzzleloaders at 600 yards and beyond and saying they're too powerful to use.
I understand these are the exception rather than the rule. But you know how things go in this crazy world.

Brokno, , my though is that when we get to the point that the fps equal or pass a mid range rifle like the 30-30 somebody will notice and then the restrictions [like stick the inlines in the rifle season may start] any accidents are likely to start the law makers thinking along that line so every one should be very careful about what is behind the deer they are shooting at even at a angle.

You are absolutely correct. During our hunter education classes we drill into the students to "positively identify your target as a safe and legal target AND what is beyond."
The two major causes of firearm related incidents (they're not accidents) is failure to identify your target and being in the line of fire.

What makes you think the lawmakers won't make northern Michigan a shotgun/muzzleloader zone if there are hunting accident from 30-30 or 30-.06 bullets?

That or worse is a possibility. They cold limit us to shotguns with only buckshot.

For me ,it takes all the Fun out of MLer Hunting. I actually like cleaning My MLer because if it needs cleaning it means I got a Deer with it and I can clean it after the hunt and think back on the fun I had that day while doing it. I started with My Father in Law's Tennessee Mountain Rifle back in the early 80's, in our State it was Cap and Ball only, no fiber optic sights and no scopes but we could use Cap's. That tought me how to be a good hunter with one shot and I liked making up my own loads. Pre Measured Loads are almost like Pellets, your stuck with that load and could be missing out on better accuracy if you used your own powder charge to fit your MLer. There's always going to be new and better, they have to do it to sell. Now I love MLer's so much I've only used them for the past 30+- years, no Rifle in Gun Season for me, I like the 1 shot. I'm also a avid Bow Hunter and a few years back I did buy 2 Crossbow's, even though we can only use them the last 2 weeks of Archery Season I felt I put my time in with a Bow all these years and learned all I could to be the best I could be. Now I know this isn't a Archery Forum but this fit's in with the "Innovation Gone Too Far" Newer Crossbow's now are Publicized as "Your Next Rifle" because some now shoot up to 440fps and even faster. These Companies are going to ruin it for people in some States where Crossbow's are allowed because they will look at it as "This is too Much" actually it isn't because 440+fps isn't even close to a Rifle, so don't market it as such, but some States may look at it this way. So Innovation has it's good and bad, some like Old School and some like the Newer and Better. But don't sacrifice newer and better because you want the Easy way out, learn why the sport is what it is and how it got to where it is today and how it all got started. This goes back to the Crossbow thing, some buy one because they don't want to learn about Trajectory or feel a Bow is too much work to learn how to shoot so they buy a Crossbow and think they have a Gun and can shoot 50++ yards when they shouldn't. This will ruin it for those who really need to shoot a Cross Bow because of Physical Impairments and those who understand what they really have. Newer and Better will always be here, it's up to the Consumer to weed out what really isn't needed only for those making it to make more $$$. If we all had to go back to Cap and Ball only with no scopes or Fiber Optic Sights we'd all do fine.

I wouldn't mind going back to flint locks with iron sights for the muzzleloader season, but then again I have been using flintlocks for the past 10 shot gun and muzzleloader seasons. I like the old ways. Get close, and one shot does it.

I'm with you, all My Hunting buddies think I'm cray to just use my MLer when they all use their Rifles during our Gun Season. But they have come to know that when they hear me shoot I have one down.