New Custom Bullet (1:20 Knight Mountaineer)
08-24-2019, 04:37 PM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 381
If by diameter you mean groove depth , how deep the grooves are , my inlines are pretty much the same as Center Fire . .0035 to .004
my slow twist patch round ball guns are deeper with most being around .006
guess I’m not sure if this is what you are talking about or not .
my slow twist patch round ball guns are deeper with most being around .006
guess I’m not sure if this is what you are talking about or not .
08-25-2019, 02:24 PM
#32
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
Seems like you guys are only talking centerfires here. Let me try and rephrase this. My .45-70s shoot .458" jacketed bullets or I cast bullets and size them to .451" then paper patch them bringing them up to .457".
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
Last edited by bronko22000; 08-25-2019 at 02:32 PM.
08-25-2019, 02:46 PM
#33
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
Seems like you guys are only talking centerfires here. Let me try and rephrase this. My .45-70s shoot .458" jacketed bullets or I cast bullets and size them to .451" then paper patch them bringing them up to .457".
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
08-25-2019, 07:30 PM
#34
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
Seems like you guys are only talking centerfires here. Let me try and rephrase this. My .45-70s shoot .458" jacketed bullets or I cast bullets and size them to .451" then paper patch them bringing them up to .457".
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
Now my .45 cal muzzy I have to size a pure lead bullet to .451". I have sized to .452" and had one heck of a time loading them. My paper patched bullets for my .45 are .449" and just barely contact the lands.
There is no way in the world I would be able to load a .457-.458" bullet in my muzzleloader. If they are both the same, why are different dia bullets used. Why cant you use .458" bullets in a muzzy or vice versa why can't you use .451" bullets in a .45-70? (well you could but your accuracy would really be horrible.)
Now same thing except Groove. The Large Red Arrow indicates Groove Diameter (in this case lets say .458 for the LARGE Red Arrow) When you go STRAIGHT across from Groove to Groove as the Large Red Arrow is Doing that is your Groove Diameter.
Now think about your .45-70 Cartridge Gun with a .458 Bullet in the Cartridge, Obviously that bullet is LARGER than your Bore Diameter of .451 (Small Red Arrow) When you pull the Trigger that .458 Bullet is Already Groove Diameter, Therefore it FILLS the GROOVES (LARGE Red Arrow) The Rifling Engraves the Bullet as it enters
A “Slip Fit” Muzzleloader Bullet on the other hand, such as our Paper Patch Bullets, they Just Touch the Lands/Rifling (Bore Diameter, Small Red Arrow) On the way Down the Bore as you push them down with your Loading Rod til it Stops on the Powder Charge, When you pull the Trigger the Bullet “BUMPS UP” To GROOVE Diameter, filling the Grooves.
Again, The Bore And Groove Diameter of your .45 Cal Muzzleloader and your .45-70 Cartridge Gun is the Same. The difference is in the Bullet size BEFORE Firing, But they both end up doing the Same thing in the end, They Fill the Grooves When Fired
08-26-2019, 03:57 AM
#36
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 381
I might be grasping at straws but it seems to me that comparing a breech loader with a muzzleloader is like comparing apples with oranges.
A breechloader has plenty of room in the chamber for loading a .458 Bullet but a muzzleloader where you would have to push that bullet from the muzzle all the way to the breechplug .... well that’s pretty difficult especially if your bore is 451 or 2 and the bullet is .458.
A breechloader has plenty of room in the chamber for loading a .458 Bullet but a muzzleloader where you would have to push that bullet from the muzzle all the way to the breechplug .... well that’s pretty difficult especially if your bore is 451 or 2 and the bullet is .458.
08-26-2019, 04:24 AM
#37
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 381
08-26-2019, 06:12 AM
#38
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
OK well thanks a bunch guys. Now I understand. I guess even us old dogs can learn new tricks. It also seems reasonable to assume that is why the .45-70 has more felt recoil than a .45 cal muzzy. It takes a lot more pressure to force that bullet down the barrel. Simple physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction!
08-27-2019, 01:46 PM
#40
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
You should Start a thread on that little Roller (Rolling Block) you just got done!! I’ll post the Pics for ya, I REALLY liked the looks of that Little Gun I shall send ya a few of these New Bullets
I bet ANYTHING they will shoot good in our 30 Twists as well, I need to Try that SOON, My 1:20 Twist Rice gets all the Love anymore, My Little 1:30 Twist LRH has been AWFULLY Good to me from my VERY Start in Muzzleloading. I need to Take her back out on a HOT Date with this New Bullet and Play Chaperone 
Again, GOOD to see ya here!