New Custom Bullet (1:20 Knight Mountaineer)
#21
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
I sure can,t begin to dispute the excellent results your getting .. CONGRATS
nor the fact your correct that the bullet diam expands into the rifling if the leads soft and powder charge,
is sufficiently high enough,
Ive just pointed out accuracy can also be achieved,
with a full diam projectile if proper tools and procedures are used.
this false muzzle route is not commonly used anymore , but a few of use do still find it works
btw
If you build your own target muzzle loaders ,you generally drill the 3-4 outer index pin holes, so the pins only line up if the false muzzles properly indexed
and then cut about a 2" section of the original barrel,off
too fabricate the false muzzle , insuring proper bore & rifling alignment
other gunsmiths would get similar results,
The barrel was bored then a section was cut off and faced off to which pins were fitted to rejoin it to the barrel.
The reaming and rifling could then be done so they are a continuous smooth transition from false muzzle to bore.
The false muzzle is opened up at the front to allow the bullet to be inserted with out damage.
nor the fact your correct that the bullet diam expands into the rifling if the leads soft and powder charge,
is sufficiently high enough,
Ive just pointed out accuracy can also be achieved,
with a full diam projectile if proper tools and procedures are used.
this false muzzle route is not commonly used anymore , but a few of use do still find it works
btw
If you build your own target muzzle loaders ,you generally drill the 3-4 outer index pin holes, so the pins only line up if the false muzzles properly indexed
and then cut about a 2" section of the original barrel,off
too fabricate the false muzzle , insuring proper bore & rifling alignment
other gunsmiths would get similar results,
The barrel was bored then a section was cut off and faced off to which pins were fitted to rejoin it to the barrel.
The reaming and rifling could then be done so they are a continuous smooth transition from false muzzle to bore.
The false muzzle is opened up at the front to allow the bullet to be inserted with out damage.
Last edited by hardcastonly; 08-24-2019 at 06:14 AM.
#22
yes! thats why I have generally cast bullets that fill the groove diam. at .459,
and why I find your excellent accuracy with a significantly smaller projectile rather surprising,
but obviously, it works fine in your case,
and yes before you ask, its a p.i.t.a. to ram a full diam bullet down the bore.
but it can be done and accuracy can be maintained doing so,
generally with a precisely indexed false muzzle guide
and why I find your excellent accuracy with a significantly smaller projectile rather surprising,
but obviously, it works fine in your case,
and yes before you ask, its a p.i.t.a. to ram a full diam bullet down the bore.
but it can be done and accuracy can be maintained doing so,
generally with a precisely indexed false muzzle guide
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
ok, first Id point out that if properly lubed and with the correct design,
you don,t (use more than your hand on a short starter in the false muzzle to start or ram the bullet down the bore,
its not going to slide down effortlessly but its very do-able with the correct false muzzle and starter and ram rod
why would you bother? the answer is a noticeable increase in accuracy over most other methods,
matches are frequently shot off a bench rest at 200-220 yards
the typical match gun has a heavy 1.2"-2" barrel diam, its certainly too heavy to be used for hunting, its a dedicated target gun,
you don,t (use more than your hand on a short starter in the false muzzle to start or ram the bullet down the bore,
its not going to slide down effortlessly but its very do-able with the correct false muzzle and starter and ram rod
why would you bother? the answer is a noticeable increase in accuracy over most other methods,
matches are frequently shot off a bench rest at 200-220 yards
the typical match gun has a heavy 1.2"-2" barrel diam, its certainly too heavy to be used for hunting, its a dedicated target gun,
#24
ok, first Id point out that if properly lubed and with the correct design,
you don,t (use more than your hand on a short starter in the false muzzle to start or ram the bullet down the bore,
its not going to slide down effortlessly but its very do-able with the correct false muzzle and starter and ram rod
why would you bother? the answer is a noticeable increase in accuracy over most other methods,
matches are frequently shot off a bench rest at 200-220 yards
the typical match gun has a heavy 1.2"-2" barrel diam, its certainly too heavy to be used for hunting, its a dedicated target gun,
you don,t (use more than your hand on a short starter in the false muzzle to start or ram the bullet down the bore,
its not going to slide down effortlessly but its very do-able with the correct false muzzle and starter and ram rod
why would you bother? the answer is a noticeable increase in accuracy over most other methods,
matches are frequently shot off a bench rest at 200-220 yards
the typical match gun has a heavy 1.2"-2" barrel diam, its certainly too heavy to be used for hunting, its a dedicated target gun,
I use this EXACT Same Loading Method I mention above with “Jacketed Bullets” in my Muzzleloaders, They Slide Down EFFORTLESSLY. This is why i have ZERO use for BH209 Powder, it will not reliably ignite my Target/Bench Bullets, Real Blackpowder (Swiss) Lights Up EVERYTIME.
#25
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
no one can deny your having found an extremely accurate rifle load combo, thats beyond real discussion, congrats
thats impressive
Im simply pointing out that there have been other routes taken to consistent accuracy with a front loader,
and while your groups are impressive and may be an improvement on older methods
groups under a minute of angle at 200 yards are not unknown using the other routes to accuracy in the past
thats impressive
Im simply pointing out that there have been other routes taken to consistent accuracy with a front loader,
and while your groups are impressive and may be an improvement on older methods
groups under a minute of angle at 200 yards are not unknown using the other routes to accuracy in the past
#26
I believe that Hardcast may be slightly confused on bore diameters. Using a bullet diameter of .459" would be OK for a .45-70 or other .45 caliber centerfire rifle. But definitely not for a muzzleloader that has a nominal bore diameter of .451". Using pure lead cast bullets out of my .45 Hawken I've shot bullets with finished diameter of .449" up to .453". The bullets that shoot with the best accuracy are my .449" paper patched and the .451" and .452" are a toss up depending on how good I'm shooting that particular day. The .453" are much more difficult to load and show no improvement in accuracy with maybe even a decline.
But, pure lead or not, I could not see me even getting a .459" started in my bore. I don't think I'd even be able to get the base started.
But, pure lead or not, I could not see me even getting a .459" started in my bore. I don't think I'd even be able to get the base started.
#28
Bronko, How could it be different?
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
#29
Bronko, How could it be different?
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
My Bestill 45’s
remington. With a Brux 450/458
omega with Douglas 450/458
hmmm am I seeing a trend ?
#30
Bronko, How could it be different?
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
Here are SAAMI Specs for a few of the more popular, Notice the similarities in Bore/Groove Diameters?
.45/70 Government .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.450 Marlin .450 Bore/.456 Groove
.458 Lott .450 Bore/.458 Groove
.458 Win Mag .450 Bore/.458 Groove
Last edited by bronko22000; 08-24-2019 at 02:53 PM.