TexJam07

Hello fellas, newbie to the forums here. I'm gettin back into MLing and have an Optima on the way. I have a can of Pyrodex RS from a few years back to use for now but a friend has a partial can of Pyrodex P he said I could have if I want. I have seen this discussed in a search. Some warn against it but there actually seem to be more guys out there saying it's fine with a reduced load, like 10% less. A few guys that have been shooting for years say they've been shooting P in their rifles for many years with no problem. Anyone here shoot P in their rifles?

arcticap

Yes, I mostly always shoot with P instead of RS, unless I want to get rid of "clearance" RS powder.
Someone recently did chrony rifle testing with equal volume loads of 777 and RS (2 granulations of 777).
The RS was easily 20% slower.
Perhaps P would have only been 10-15% slower.

I think that P is the closest to black powder, especially Swiss which is said to be 11% denser than regular Goex.

arcticap

Here's the chrony data that was posted:
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I have been chronographing different powders in my .50 caliber T/C Renegade with 1:66 barrel and lead round balls. I tested Hodgdon Pyrodex RS, Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG and Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFFG.

40g Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFFG: AV-1396 fps, ES/SD-84/31 fps
40g Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG: AV-1322 fps, ES/SD-47/20 fps
40g Hodgdon Pyrodex RS: AV-1103 fps, ES/SD53/21 fps

60g Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFFG: AV-1690 fps, ES/SD-41/17 fps
60g Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG: AV-1603 fps, ES/SD-99/38 fps
60g Hodgdon Pyrodex RS: AV-1281 fps, ES/SD-70/27 fps

I tested 80g of Hodgdon Pyrodex RS to see if it would come close to the velocities 60g of Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFG and FFG gave me.

80g Pyrodex RS: AV-1578 fps, ES/SD-88/33 fps

I was not expecting the Hodgdon Triple Se7en powders to be that much faster than the Pyrodex RS. Given the 100 yard groups I've fired with 60g of Triple Se7en FFFG, it makes sense when someone tells me they are loading 90g of Pyrodex RS in their .50 caliber rifles to get the best accuracy with round balls at 100 yards.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t.../#post-1512422
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TexJam07

Thanks Articap! So I would guess that with modern ML bullets instead of round lead balls all the numbers across the board would be a tad faster?

arcticap

Pyodex P is faster than Goes 2F,and a little faster than Goex 3F, especially when it's compressed.
Swiss is very close to Pyrodex P, not sure but I don't think it's as fast.
777 is the fastest, except for maybe Blackhorn 209.

But even CVA will say not to load more than 90-120 grains of loose powder for best accuracy, and they're usually talking about 2F.

As a matter of fact, they recommend IMR White Hots.

Bullets will be a little slower because they're heavier than balls.

TexJam07

Well that's makes sense, I'm thinking grain for grain the modern would be faster because of aerodynamics.

Gm54-120

Right or wrong the manual says not to use P or any 3FG equivalent. Tech support flat out told me they would void my warranty if they found out i was using a 3FG equivalent. The goof ball told me to consult the powder manufacturer if i had any more powder questions. I told him Hodgdon does support Pyro P and even has Pyro P load data for 50cals. He said to have them warranty the rifle if it fails then.

The sad fact is, 100gr of Pyro P which is an approved load by Hodgdon will never make as much pressure as 3 pellets which it not approved. Yet CVA allows a 3 pellet load.....Figure that one out.

BuckDoeHunter

Makes your head spin...

longbowelk

They got the same BS stance on lead conical over 400 grains. Too lazy to test them and approve them. Funny they approve 405 powerbelt.

Gm54-120

To some extent i can understand a conical and even a sabot weight limitation although its not that stinking hard to publish some approved data by bullet weight. When you give your customers the blanket statement of MAGNUM capable you better also set a max projectile weight. Things can get ugly very fast if you shove 3 pellets down under a 500gr conical. Many of us are smart enough to know thats a horrible idea but then you get those people that have no idea. Even when using BH209 if you dont know they only go upto 100gr with heavy conicals things could get ugly or at least way over the peak pressure that is considered safe.

As long as you pay attention to Hodgdons or Westerns published load data you are probably safe in any new inline ML. At around 440gr bullets Western says 100gr by volume is max. Hodgdon has NEVER recommended over 100gr of loose powder in a 45cal or 50cal.