Lehigh Spear
03-14-2018, 08:01 AM
#11
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
My concern with this design is that the tip could be misaligned during loading and cause erratic flight similar to the steel rods place in armor piercing bullets. If those are not centered then accuracy falls off. Looks like a lot of trouble for a tip design that probably doesn't increase the BC enough.
Remember also the tip is not the normal aluminum that we encounter. It is 7075-T6.
7075-T6 aluminum is a type of 7075 aluminum. It is furnished in the T6 temper. To achieve this temper, the metal is solution heat-treated and artificially aged until it meets standard mechanical property requirements.
Loading - some have speculated that loading might also be a problem but most normal spire type loading jags load the bullet with out touching the tip. I have used TC Super Jags, Spin Jag Originals, and of course a Lehigh loading jag. All of these load the bullet correctly.
I can also tell you that dropping them on the concrete floor in the garage, not a designed test, but it happened a couple of times when I was trying to remove the tip in the garage. Anyway the drop did not effect the tip or the bullet.
One other thing that arrived in my email this morning was some information of successful harvests using the lighter .451x237CF-LP bullet. Same bullet just smaller diameter and shorter so it can be shot from a 1-48 twist ML or in this a case tight bored smokeless ML's
A couple of guys wrote:
My Grandson Shot this Mouflon at 267 yds. With the prototype .451, 237 gr. bullet that you sent: created extreme internal damage lending itself to tremendous terminal performance. It also passed through but with the aid of the fragmentation, the animal was disabled immediately and expired immediately after.
My Son Shot this Axis Buck at 363 yds. With the prototype .451 MZ bullet in his Smokeless Muzzleloader, with an average velocity in his rifle: 2963 fps.
The spotter saw the deer bellied up immediately when it got shot: it too, passed through, but internal damage was massive.
Performed perfectly and to my utmost expectation.
The spotter saw the deer bellied up immediately when it got shot: it too, passed through, but internal damage was massive.
Performed perfectly and to my utmost expectation.
I think we all should keep that in mind.
Last edited by sabotloader; 03-14-2018 at 08:11 AM.
03-14-2018, 11:49 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
My concern with this design is that the tip could be misaligned during loading and cause erratic flight similar to the steel rods place in armor piercing bullets. If those are not centered then accuracy falls off. Looks like a lot of trouble for a tip design that probably doesn't increase the BC enough.
03-14-2018, 01:14 PM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Bronco, forgot to give you an answer about BC
Lehigh 451x230CF-HP .160
Lehigh 451x237CF-LP .250
Lehigh 452x240CF-HP .180
Lehigh 452x247CF-LP .260
So I would say the tips do decent job bumping the actual G1 BC
Lehigh 451x230CF-HP .160
Lehigh 451x237CF-LP .250
Lehigh 452x240CF-HP .180
Lehigh 452x247CF-LP .260
So I would say the tips do decent job bumping the actual G1 BC
03-14-2018, 02:12 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Quoting..."My Grandson Shot this Mouflon at 267 yds. With the prototype .451, 237 gr. bullet that you sent: created extreme internal damage lending itself to tremendous terminal performance. It also passed through but with the aid of the fragmentation, the animal was disabled immediately and expired immediately after.
My Son Shot this Axis Buck at 363 yds. With the prototype .451 MZ bullet in his Smokeless Muzzleloader, with an average velocity in his rifle: 2963 fps.
The spotter saw the deer bellied up immediately when it got shot: it too, passed through, but internal damage was massive.
Performed perfectly and to my utmost expectation."
Those bullets that killed those animals were traveling a way faster than the bullet when we caught it. Results should be expected to be different. If the bullets that killed those animals had been traveling the same speed as the bullet we caught, the results may have been disappointing? Had the bullet we caught been traveling as fast as those killing bullets, you may not have considered the result to be a failure?
The information i posted in the OP was data we collected in the real world.
_
03-14-2018, 03:49 PM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
Well call me skeptical but I don't see that bullet design to be any better then what's already out there and I when I was talking about accuracy I was thinking of the tip getting slightly bend from improper loading which would cause an out of balance condition. Seems to me like there isn't enough support for the tip. Now we're talking an aluminum tip here not a lead tip. Lead tips fired from centerfires do melt some as do some of the older polymer tips.
I will looked into my imbalance concern and found this (which is what I was trying to say initially): http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bu...nce-and-twist/ .
I will looked into my imbalance concern and found this (which is what I was trying to say initially): http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bu...nce-and-twist/ .
Last edited by bronko22000; 03-14-2018 at 03:55 PM.
03-14-2018, 04:39 PM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Seems to me like there isn't enough support for the tip. Now we're talking an aluminum tip here not a lead tip.
Lead tips fired from centerfires do melt some as do some of the older polymer tips.
I will looked into my imbalance concern and found this (which is what I was trying to say initially): http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bu...nce-and-twist/ .
I will looked into my imbalance concern and found this (which is what I was trying to say initially): http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bu...nce-and-twist/ .
03-14-2018, 04:49 PM
#18
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Mike,
Those bullets that killed those animals were traveling a way faster than the bullet when we caught it. Results should be expected to be different. If the bullets that killed those animals had been traveling the same speed as the bullet we caught, the results may have been disappointing? Had the bullet we caught been traveling as fast as those killing bullets, you may not have considered the result to be a failure?
Those bullets that killed those animals were traveling a way faster than the bullet when we caught it. Results should be expected to be different. If the bullets that killed those animals had been traveling the same speed as the bullet we caught, the results may have been disappointing? Had the bullet we caught been traveling as fast as those killing bullets, you may not have considered the result to be a failure?
I haven not computed the velocity of the bullet shot at 363 yards but you can bet it has slowed down to something much less than the 2963fps at the muzzle.
In addition Grouse and other eastern hunters have use the 247CF-LP for deer harvest this year and have reported the same 'Terminal Performance' they expect from a Lehigh Controlled Fracturing' bullet.
I do not know the ranges of those shots - Tom might come back to this thread and post those ranges - he keeps track of all that information.
The information i posted in the OP was data we collected in the real world.
