lemoyne

Most of the bullets I have used have passed through with the exception of a couple of gold dots that hit the off shoulder on deer, bear has been a different category for me,
I have never lost one but the bigger blacks have stopped most of the bullets I have used on them if they were in the 300 pound range field dressed. They were difficult to track some times it took most of a day to track one down and get him out.

sabotloader

And with that you know why I say a bullet with accuracy and Terminal Performance are the important factors. Almost any bullet or most reasonable bullets or round balls can, in time, harvest in a given range. I choose to use a bullet that I know will work for me from 0 - 200+ yards, with immediate results. If I can make my shot and have the animal go down on the spot (defeat the flight response) I know I have a bullet that will work for me.


In that same description I agree - I want a pass through!

hunters_life

Which is why I choose to go for the shoulders sabotloader. The old man favored the high shoulder shot and I use that occasionally on perfectly motionless animals but my preferred shot is right in the basket breaking down both shoulders if at all possible. At the speeds my bullets are going, and the size of them, I really don't damage as much meat as some want to think. You know, the powerbelt users that have to stay off the shoulder because of bullet failure. But with both shoulders busted, that deer isn't going far, if anywhere. 0 cartilage in my knees from many years of football makes long tracking and dragging jobs a nightmare anymore. Like you, I want to put that animal down as close to me as possible.

sabotloader

I can identify with all of that! + plus add the degenerative joint disease that has hastened things along.


At one time - I did strive for a disabling shoulder shot but over the years and first with the discovery of Nosler Partition bullets and then with the newer more developed 'Controlled Fracture' bullets it really has become - not necessary to shoot the shoulders.


With the Noslers and the velocity can shoot them and not worry about separation - their mushrooming and combined with the velocity they are traveling - they create a tremendous amount of 'hydrostatic shock' and destruction in the chest cavity. The degree of this shock tends to override any flight response the animal can muster. Then with the advent of the CF you get the same features and more often than not if the shot placement is high heart - you will get a petal that pierces the spinal cord and even if you don't the other petals loose in the chest destroying organs +hydro shock of the core of the bullet make soup out of the internals in the chest.


The big benefit - no 'flight response' and a near immediate dead animal - I like that now days. Not only because of tracking - but in some of the areas we hunt a matter 50 yards could put the animal in an unreachable spot or on someone else's land.

hunters_life

I've seen the results of those Lehigh bullets both from the old man and Alex both. The only smoker I own that will shoot a sabot is my Renegade and only XTP's will shoot worth a flip out of it. I tried some of Alex's 220gr .458 CF's out of it. Not good results at all. The best group I got out of it was well over 3.5 inches with a 90 grain Swiss FFG load. Maybe those 230gr new ones you recommended will do better. I have dad's Thompson Center and that smokeless demon spawn as well but I'm just not that into inlines. They just don't twist my crank. I do have to admit that smokeless is fun to shoot and I will most definitely take it on an Elk hunt but my main focus is my smoke poles.

sabotloader

I was going to say you should try some of those new Lehigh .451x230 grain bullets from your Rene.. In a note to Lehigh Dave when he started talking about building this bullet I asked about it possibly being able to shoot from a slow 1-48 twist and he in his positive nature indicated he felt that it could be done. He did and it does.






I gotta say I really do not shoot the older side-hammers like I use to. But every time I get one out I marvel at their appearance. I just like their lines - especially the Renegades - just plain shooters.





And this one certainly handled the new Lehigh copper good enough for me... even though it is only a 75 yard target and it was the very first time I shot the bullet.






Awhile back Dave created a .458x220 grain Bloodline - I did out of curiosity try that through one of my Rene's and it did not go so good either.



You would think... as much as I was into rifles and reloading I would jump all-over a smokeless ML - but for some reason I have just not gotten the urge at all. Probably because of the terrain I hunt in and my age and physical abilities - I really have no need for the extra range.

hunters_life

I have several side hammers and flinters. That Rene is in the top 2 of my favorites. It just plain shoots. With one of my molded 275 grain conical bullets, you can cover a 3 shot group at 100 yards with a quarter and have some room to wiggle. You just don't argue with that kind of shooter. It can certainly shoot better than I can aim it anymore.
Tom sent my little sister Alex a buttload of those 220gr Lehighs. I am assuming they are the ones you were referring to. They sure do the damage. They also shoot fantastically out of that smokeless screaming along at around 2700 fps+. They flew great out to 200 but at around 300 they started to open up a good bit. Just not enough BC for the long shots.
When they are available I will get some of those 230's for the Renegade. Which sabot did you use?

sabotloader

They are on the web site now...


https://www.lehighdefense.com/collec...nt=36101510216


They are 451 but have a very aggressive knurling to lock themselves in the sabot so they do not slip in the sabot.


I was using the normal black MMP HPH 24


Crap! those 220's at 2700fps would be truly devastating! on about anything!

hunters_life

lol, yeah I said the same thing to Alex. Seeing what they do out of her little Thompson Center Impact over 95 grains of that Blackhorn to a very large bodied buck at a little over 210 yards, just imagine them hitting something from that demon spawn. I'm actually looking forward to taking it on an Elk hunt. But I am torn between those 220's and the 300gr Nosler that shoots MOA out to 300 yards from it. I doubt I'll have a long shot but I like to cover my bases.
I think Tom was planning on sending Alex some of those 230's to test out of her Impact. I'll stuff a few down the Renegade and if they fly as well from mine as they did your's I'll definitely buy a few boxes. Don't get me wrong here, the XTP's have always served me well but those Lehigh bullets impressed the hell out of me with their terminal performance. If I can get them to fly as well as I can the XTP then I am all for the switch.

ronlaughlin

Which is why we chose to use the 300 xtp last hunting season, and it did not disappoint. We would use it again, for sure, this upcoming season, but..................
there are five unopened boxes of free bullets on the shelf which may get the nod for hunting.
Kind of ironic is it not? The xtp would get beat out because of price.....















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