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-   -   need more knock down (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/413693-need-more-knock-down.html)

bearbow49 05-15-2017 12:54 PM

need more knock down
 
I have t c black diamond extended range 50 cal I shoot 100 gr or 2 pellets a 240 gram t c magnum sabot my prob is I shoot deer they run for ever or go down and take forever to expire and takes extra shot I get good hits but lacking stopping power thinking about going to 150 gr and maybe try hornady bullits like to get some input thanks

younggun308 05-15-2017 01:33 PM

How far away were the deer when you hit them, and how big was the exit wound relative to the entrance wound?

Oldtimr 05-15-2017 01:33 PM

Where are you hitting them, deer hit through the lungs do not take forever to die.

bearbow49 05-15-2017 06:15 PM

one I hit shd fell on spot 30 yd another 40 yd shd they both fell on spot I have shot lot of deer and know lung shot is good but also know shd shoulder if you got rt load shoulder shot should put them down quick it ain t the gun or me got to be load I ck with t c they rec 150 gram with that bullit

bearbow49 05-15-2017 06:20 PM

no exit wounds that not rt killed buck once ran 100 yd dug bullet out of other shd

younggun308 05-15-2017 06:47 PM

If the bullets you recovered expanded fine, you probably should start shooting them in the lungs. Even a deer shot in the shoulder can and often will run with broken limbs, if the spine has not been severed. That takes a high shoulder shot, where the spine meets the scapula.
Don't expect rifle cartridge performance out of a muzzleloader; there's a huge difference in velocity and "shock power" just isn't the same. Hydrostatic shock doesn't enter the picture even for many standard rifle rounds; the deer practically needs to be hit with a projectile going at least 2,400fps, something a muzzleloader even with 3 pellets of pyrodex cannot do at the muzzle.

d80hunter 05-16-2017 02:59 AM


Originally Posted by younggun308 (Post 4304434)
If the bullets you recovered expanded fine, you probably should start shooting them in the lungs. Even a deer shot in the shoulder can and often will run with broken limbs, if the spine has not been severed. That takes a high shoulder shot, where the spine meets the scapula.
Don't expect rifle cartridge performance out of a muzzleloader; there's a huge difference in velocity and "shock power" just isn't the same. Hydrostatic shock doesn't enter the picture even for many standard rifle rounds; the deer practically needs to be hit with a projectile going at least 2,400fps, something a muzzleloader even with 3 pellets of pyrodex cannot do at the muzzle.

True. My .450 Bushmaster will put a 250 grain bullet at 2250 FPS and is a deer hammer. On the other hand I can shoot a similar 250 grain bullet from a muzzleloader with 100 grains of powder at 1650 FPS.

BarnesAddict 05-16-2017 03:06 AM


Originally Posted by younggun308 (Post 4304434)
....... Hydrostatic shock doesn't enter the picture even for many standard rifle rounds; the deer practically needs to be hit with a projectile going at least 2,400fps, something a muzzleloader even with 3 pellets of pyrodex cannot do at the muzzle.


I get 2,300fps from a BP Xpress using a 300gr bullet. However I'm also shoot a charge that mass produced rifle are not capable of.




Originally Posted by bearbow49 (Post 4304378)
I have t c black diamond extended range 50 cal I shoot 100 gr or 2 pellets a 240 gram t c magnum sabot my prob is I shoot deer they run for ever or go down and take forever to expire and takes extra shot I get good hits but lacking stopping power thinking about going to 150 gr and maybe try hornady bullits like to get some input thanks

Watch the video link posted above...

I'd increase the weight of the bullet to a 290gr or 300gr bullet. I'd also switch to T7 pellets, where you could try 2-T7M pellets for 120grs (Red box). DO NOT SHOOT 3 T7M (magnum RED BOX) PELLETS.
If you want to use 150grs, shoot the black box 50/50 pellets.
Barnes Expanders or Barnes T-EZ bullets work extremely well.

Shot placement is everything. My own preference is a top of the heart shot. If its high it will go through the lungs. Low and it takes out the heart. I've shot an awful lot of whitetail and even shot through the heart, can run. No two will react the same it seems.

cayugad 05-16-2017 05:47 AM

I have the same rifle. And I would think that its all down to shot placement. Now I am not doubting your hits. But I have seen deer shot just a small amount back of the lungs run for 100 yards.

I shot a deer once in the lungs with a roundball and got a complete pass through. The deer ran 30 yards into the thicket (of course) and when I found her there was a gross looking foam out of her mouth. I am sure that was because I shut the lungs down.

If they are running off, I would change bullet weight or bullet style. Maybe something heavier. But I have little experience with sabots and bullets for taking deer. Every time I hunt with sabots and my favorite bullet, I never see a deer. Walk out with a round ball and they are all around me.

Gm54-120 05-16-2017 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by d80hunter (Post 4304469)
True. My .450 Bushmaster will put a 250 grain bullet at 2250 FPS and is a deer hammer. On the other hand I can shoot a similar 250 grain bullet from a muzzleloader with 100 grains of powder at 1650 FPS.

A 2 pellet load is a dog. 100gr by volume of BH209 would be a fair amount faster. Even 100gr of loose Triple7 would be noticeably faster than 2 pellets.

People seeking velocity should avoid pellets altogether. Unless you have one of the "Ultimates" from Remington or UF.

Blackhorn209 is quite capable of reaching around 2100fps with a 250gr bullet in many production muzzleloaders.

It appears the OP is talking about the Hornady 45 240gr bullet sold by T/C. That bullet is likely a XTP MAG and has a super thick jacket. Even thicker than many 45/70 bullet jackets. The 45cal MAGS are intended for 454 Casull or even faster rounds.

Simply changing to the 250gr XTP will solve lack of expansion or better yet use the Barnes 225-250gr XPB or 250gr Expander MZ. I shoot the 225gr XPB at over 2200fps in my custom build. Expansion is violent to say the least.


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