BarnesAddict

Good question.... and DARN GOOD CATCH

The charge, bullet and sabot were identical with all six of those sabots. The three that have the torn bases, passed through the muzzle brake (normal), where the 3 that bases are just expanded, were shot without the brake (normal). With the base expanded as it goes through the radial brake, the brake tears the edges of the sabot.

Grouse45

I've done this hundreds of times. It just makes no difference. This was really popular many years ago. Just no justification at all in a lot of ML'S. But if it gives you confidence do it. That simple!!

BuckDoeHunter

Wow! That's just plain wrong. How in the world did you come by this erroneous information?

Grouse45

Lol, shooting muzzleloaders way to much is the best answer I got for you.

BuckDoeHunter

Your proof, your evidence, your data that says a sabot slips in the bore that far before engaging the rifling.

BuckDoeHunter

I apologize to the OP for not posting this first

based on your numbers

25 yards .30 inches high
50 yards 1.3 inches high
100 yards 1.0 inches high
119 yard zero

I always index my sabots, It helps me and consistency is the key

ronlaughlin

Me, i believe it is good practice to be as consistent as possible when loading your rifle. Aligning the sabot the same way each time you load, should help accuracy; how can it hurt?

Follows is a calculation using the information you provided about your load.

















Note the chart indicate your 25 yard impact shouldn't be 3" low, if it is 1" high at 100 yard. The 25 yard impact should be about 1/4" high. The calculator shown here, has been very reliable for me, and all my shooting; i trust it.













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Grouse45

I honestly cant prove it. 6 to 8 inches is my guess only. Could be 2 to 4 inches?? Every bullet is different for sure. You take a loaded pistol bullet in a pistol for example. In theory a pistol bullet starts to obturate before leaving the casing. But it takes a certain amount of pressure to make the bullet to obturate. When talking Muzzleloaders i think the higher calibers 50cal and up slip more cause they build less pressure then say a 45caliber obviously using the same weight or volume of powder. Semisane brought up a good point. he feels the sabot obturates right away upon ignition. I agree but disagree. I believe the pressure determines when the sabot obturates and how fast. He could be right in a 45cal ML with a good load, but a 50cal and above i really dont think so. I believe it takes longer for the sabot to obturate. That could be an inch or two, or even five or six inches. again the pressure is going to determine the obturation, thats facts not speculation or even and opinion.

The original poster stated and asked the question about indexing sabots in the same spot everytime when loading. Ive done this hundreds of times in Knight Extremes, Knight Elites, Encores, Triumphs, and even the Savage shooting smokeless and there was no difference. Now there is a chance he just has the perfect scenario and everything is just working perfect. The sabot/bullet combination is obturating very fast and he does see a difference. And if thats the case i would do it everytime. Being consistent reloading anything is always good if it works better or not.

Semisane brought up another good point about possible bullet slipping. Lehigh actually puts slits on the side of the bullet to help keep bullet slippage to a minimum. Again, it doesnt matter if the sabot slips, or the bullet slips in the sabot, to me its slippage either way you look at it.

When you take a look at the good long range ML shooters. I mean the guys that compete shooting paper. I dont think its by accident they mostly use 45 cal or smaller ML'S. I think its all about getting the bullet to bump/obturate to lock into the rifling. The faster this happens the more accurate the bullet will shoot.

Not to get off the subject, but im a hunter. I dont care about 95% of this stuff when hunting. My hunting range is between 5 yards and 200 yards. I tested weighing Bh209 against volume measuring. The difference if any is not worth the time. If i shoot a one inch group at 100 yards volume measuring, or a 3/4 inch group weighing whats the difference?? I can assure you whatever im shooting wont know the difference. Just like at 200 yards i can shoot 2 inch groups volume measuring. I might be able to shoot 1 1/2 weighing. Is the game im shooting gonna know that 1/2 difference at 200 yards?? NOPE!!

I feel the same about bullets and shot placement. Lots of guys say you gotta hit them in the right place. Well thats true, but not reality for me. I get excited when i hunt and im not shooting off a bench or even a rest. So i prefer to use the best bullet possible cause im not going to make the perfect shot. I might be an inch or two off from the guys that do everything perfect. Nothing is ever perfect for me, thats why i use the best bullet possible. Here again, my way is probably not the best by any means but its reality for me right or wrong.

lemoyne

Personally I a line mine so that two rifling are showing on each petal of the sabot and none are in the space between. This takes a bit of doing, but I believe it has cut the amount of fliers down till I know who is responsible for any I get.

Grouse45

I think i would full form sabots if i was as critical as you. People do this with sabotless bullets a lot. They run the bullets down the barrel or a cut off piece of the barrel to engrave the rifling into the bullet. Then they align the bullet engraving with the rifling and load there ML. You could do the same thing with a sabot using a tight bullet and just push them right down the barrel with the breech plug removed. Ive never done this but i think im gonna try it and see how it works. But i think flyers are from inconsistent diameter sabots. When a sabot all of a sudden loads really easy in comparison to the other bullets you already fired its almost a guaranteed flyer. When i was shooting for groups when this happened i would fire that load down range not at the target i was shooting at.