Whats more important about your bullet choice.
 

1-Are you concerned with high BC?

2-Or are you more inclined to worry about performance on game? basically how quick or fast it kills your particular animal.

1- I'm always concerned with higher BC bullets for longer range shooting/hunting.

2- Performance matters, but shot placement matters most. With proper shot placement, you can kill game with a marble.

I rare get a shot past 100 yards. Normally 75 yards and closer so a high BC doesn't concern me much. When I use a conical I want one that delivers as much energy as possible internally and exiting the other side.

Back in 1960 I started out with a 40 caliber PRB and tracked several deer for 1/2 mile or more. I hit them good but did not seem to have any stopping power right then I decided putting them down as close to where I hit them was right next to reasonable accuracy in importance. Last year I dropped a doe less than 10 yards from where I hit her with a 250 grain Lehigh at 147 yards by laser range finder this year one of the 5 I got was 136 yards a decent buck [basket rack] and I dropped him in less than 30 yards with a 200 grain /40 caliber Lehigh [ all my Lehigh are Bloodline I have not shot any other for hunting for several years.

High BC in a ML bullet is not a concern for me. I personally limit my shooting range to 200 - 250yds. max.


I am always willing, in a ML bullet, to trade BC for Meplat. I really want the impact felt then the most important part the destruction of the internals by Hydrostatic Shock.


I believe if I can achieve the felt impact on the animal with energy of the felt impact and the shock of the destruction of the internal you can over-ride the animals immediate 'flight response'

Funny thing is, i never get to choose the bullet. The rifle, he gets the choice. This year i decided to use the 275 grain BE. The rifle chose the 300 grain XTP. After all said, and done, i guess i am glad he did; the gut shot deer didn't get far, and is in the freezer.

His criteria are neither BC, nor terminal performance, but his choice did do a very fine job putting the deer down, even with a lousy shot on my part.










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a few of my examples and what i like.

BC really means nothing to me. I worry more about bullet expansion and tissue damage from the original hit. Another thing that is just as important is accuracy.

I shoot a lot of round balls. BC with them is a joke, so big balls are better. :D

For the SML I am building soon I will want an extreme BC because I will be shooting at ranges from 200-300 yards on Moose. I'll want every drop of energy that bullet can retain for those ranges on a Mature Bull Moose. Probably go with a Parker or a home lathed with a lightly hollow base and run through a drop sizer design I have in my head. But for my normal ranges on Whitetail and Elk, rarely over 150 yards, like Sabot I want the most felt impact and internal damage as can be delivered for a quick drop of the animal. So far, Lehighs/Bloodlines have shown me exactly what I want to see in terminal performance and at my medium ranges they perform exactly how I need them to as far as accuracy. They shoot great from both mine and my Daughters TC's. I think I'm going to go a bit heavier than the 220's and go with these 265gr controlled fracturing:

I had more people testing the 265grn Lehigh over any other bullet by far. And it proved to be a very good bullet. I think it's over kill for Deer but that's a matter of preference. As far as the 220 for me it's .458, which is good for the Knight 52 but not me. But it does shoot good in my NULA, but I'm working on a change for that gun and it will benefit your daughter to.

I wouldn't mind a 220 in .452. Even with the crush ribs those .458's load a bit on the stiff side. Damn near impossible with the orange MMP's. Absolutely IS impossible for the youngest daughter. I have to get up and do a dance on the short starter to get them going. But they load well enough with the CR's and shoot dang near on top of each other with both of our rigs.

I've got a buck in mind for next season that will rival a Saska Canadian in body mass if he bulks up like he did this year. He'll be 6.5 this year with just a 145" 10 point 6x4 weird looking rack this past season. I want to crush him with a pretty stout load.

I couldn't have said it any better. A LONG shot for me is 75 yards.

If i shot him with 130grns of Bh209 and a 200grn Bloodline he wouldnt move. If he did it wouldnt be but 10 or 20 yards tops. And i would shoot him behind the shoulders nothing fancy.

Second to accuracy would be penetration - Right ?

Not only penetration but reliable expansion and tissue damage. The problem I have with a lot of the high BC bullets are either blowing up or penciling through.

Did Dave ever get tips to work reliably in the Controlled Fracturing bullets to give them a higher BC Tom?

+2. I couldn't tell you the BC of any of the bullets I use. At less than 200yds for all my shots, the things cayugad mentioned are all I really care about. That and price.:happy0001:

[QUOTE=super_hunt54;4295144]Not only penetration but reliable expansion and tissue damage. The problem I have with a lot of the high BC bullets are either blowing up or penciling through.......QUOTE]

Maybe the original question could have included what type or how high the BC? I would imagine that some may think a high BC is anything over .300 comparing them to bullets with .180. Others may consider a .230 or .250 a high BC
There are so many GREAT bullets available, many of which perform flawlessly and repeatedly. It all boils down to proper shot placement.

The only bullet that i know of or remember that a tip works increasing BC is the 200grn Bloodline. I actually should send some to Ron to test with tips. Rons testing is a lot better then mine. Ill work on doing that soon.

Sabotloader should chime in to. But i think the 200grn Bloodline is it so far.

[QUOTE=BarnesAddict;4295171]Your 100% right in what your saying, i could never argue that. But i don't shoot as good as you, and i don't always wait for ideal situations when hunting. So that's why i use the best bullet possible to harvest game.

My philosophy is no doubt wrong, and mainly cause i get excited. And im in situations all the time were i don't have a great rest as well. But ive never ever had to track an animal Elk or Deer with a Bloodline bullet. NEVER!!

Even at 200 yards BC does not mean much depending on your MV. The Barnes 225gr XPB for example has a pitiful BC but i can shoot them at 2300fps with ease. Its still extremely deadly at 150yards or more. It will still expand like crazy too.

Things become far more complicated when you need a bullet that performs as designed at 50 yards and 300 yards. Something has to give and its usually the amount of cash in your wallet.

I like the Parker BE but im very aware of its limitations at high speed impacts. You dont want to hit a high shoulder with this bullet. It makes a hell of a mess and will ruin too much meat.

Ive said for years a heavy 40cal SST type would offer better all around performance and a nice increase in BC. Pittman is getting ready to test a 225gr and 250gr 40cal with a high BC. Kinda like a Parker Match Hunter but in 40cal. If the 250gr will shoot in sabots it might be awesome in a fast twist 45. Im almost certain the 225gr will be fine in sabots even at smoker speeds.

The same can be said for monolithics. The Barnes 195gr pretty much sucks in the BC department and ive never gotten them to shoot as well as the 40cal SST. They shoot well enough for "minute of deer" but nothing to rave about.

Make a similar bullet of around 225gr or slightly more and you should easily gain 10% better BC. I would also like to see it in .401 instead of .400. The Barnes in a blue harvester sabot loads a little too easy. IMO its one of the reasons accuracy isnt quite as good as it could be. The base needs to be nice and flat too without a overly sharp radius. Barnes sent out a bunch of those 195s that tons of people had problems getting them too shoot because the base was screwed up.

I believe the tip can help BC if the aerodynamics of the whole bullet help to increase its' ability to move through the air. Just adding a tip is/will not always raise the BC significantly.

An example might be the Lehigh 40x230 and the 40x215.

40x230 with a BC of - .203 - which I was really happy with





40x215 with a BC of - .330. But Dave felt he could offer a higher BC with this combination. The HP is closed more than the 230 offering a more aerodynamic bullet.





Also this is the 452x265 without a tip - BC .173



452x274 with tip - BC .260





Even though the BC was raised enough to make this really interesting, to me anyway. The tip did not enhance the Terminal Performance of the bullet to Lehigh Dave's standards - he is finiky... So I believe he has dropped the project for now and is planning a different strategy/tip to keep the bullet performing to his standards.


This pic shows the 40x200 with a tip installed (middle bullet). It did raise the BC of the bullet but it was never confirmed, at least by me, that the bullet operated with the same Terminal Performance as the bare bullet...


screen capture




And as already has been suggest BC is really a function of the velocity of the bullet at the muzzle and at the POI

Sabotloader,
I shot 4 0r 5 Deer with the 200grn Bloodline with tips with the same performance as without. One was 225 yards. But i honestly dont remember if i looked for petals cause the results were the same. Do you still have any of those tips?

Yes, a very few maybe 5?

Thats plenty, i might need a favor ill let you know. I think i recently sent Gordy all i had but ill double check.

Works for me...

Me too! :rock:
Speaking of conicals.... Just had custom roundballs made-up so I improve my odds with pass-thru, without using more than 75gr of blackpowder.

"Speaking of conicals.... Just had custom roundballs made-up"???? Can someone tell me what one has to do with the other? And what is "custom" about them that will make for better penetration? Harder alloy?

I sent Ron some 200grn Bloodlines with tips. Will see how it goes. They can be put in all Bloodlines with minor size changes.

Ditto :party0005:

For the hunting I do at this point, putting the animal down is my main goal. I don't typically shoot long range, so BC is a moot point really. I want an accurate and deadly bullet. I'm like you Grouse, 95% of my shots are behind the shoulder. I think the Bloodline is a great solution. Interesting about the tips, never seen them before that I can recall.