Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!
02-18-2017, 08:41 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
My preferred and always attempted POI on game is a heart shot. I've flattened them on the spot with muzzleloaders, shotgun slugs, CF rifles and pistols. I've also had them with the heart blown completely in 1/2 run up to 100yds, with all the above mentioned firearms.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
02-18-2017, 08:48 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
The Leigh copper bullet I must admit interests me also. I always was a fan of the Barnes Copper bullets. The testing I did with them and a Black Diamond XR was to say the least spectacular in the devastation department and the hold together and deform perfect department. One reason I hunted for years with my Knight LK rifle and a Barnes MZ Expander. I just wish the deer had cooperated.
Are these new copper bullets heavy weight or light weight? I will be watching for your updates on it.
As for your topic of center fire VS muzzleloader, I have had deer drop in their tracks from Center Fires. Both the 30-06 and the 7mm Remington Magnum has planted a lot of deer. But it was all shot placement. I used to do a lot of neck shooting when young. But as the distances got longer, I changed to center mass shooting. Although I have still dropped them there too.
With a muzzleloader, I have never taken a deer yet with a sabot. Every time I hunt with one, I never see anything to shoot. But I have shot a large number of deer with round ball, and conical. And most of them were a bang flop.
Are these new copper bullets heavy weight or light weight? I will be watching for your updates on it.
As for your topic of center fire VS muzzleloader, I have had deer drop in their tracks from Center Fires. Both the 30-06 and the 7mm Remington Magnum has planted a lot of deer. But it was all shot placement. I used to do a lot of neck shooting when young. But as the distances got longer, I changed to center mass shooting. Although I have still dropped them there too.
With a muzzleloader, I have never taken a deer yet with a sabot. Every time I hunt with one, I never see anything to shoot. But I have shot a large number of deer with round ball, and conical. And most of them were a bang flop.
As far as Barnes in Muzzleloaders, Barnes knows themselves the MZ Expander is by far the most lethal bullet they got for a ML. The guys that use others truly do got to worry about shot placement or the ideal shot. In my hunting world, everything is far from perfect, that's why I use the best bullet I can use. But knowing what I know today, the MZ Expander would be my second choice bullet today.
02-18-2017, 08:56 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
My preferred and always attempted POI on game is a heart shot. I've flattened them on the spot with muzzleloaders, shotgun slugs, CF rifles and pistols. I've also had them with the heart blown completely in 1/2 run up to 100yds, with all the above mentioned firearms.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
I'm also playing around with 22 shells. Really trying to get a handle on sonic and sub sonic ammo. Just haven't came to a good conclusion yet. But sonic 22 ammo dropping to sub sonic doesn't make sense to me. Right now I'm leaning towards sub sonic but still playing around with them.
02-18-2017, 08:59 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/311-high-velocity-controlled-chaos-copper-123gr-bullet?variant=17037720260
02-18-2017, 09:21 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Try slugging your barrel MD and see what you come up with. You may be surprised to find your barrel may be as much as .312! Lotta Mosins out there that just don't have consistent sizing of the barrels. Lehigh does make a .311 Controlled Fracturing 123 grain bullet. A .311 may just tighten your groups up as well.
02-18-2017, 11:35 AM
#19
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,745
I guess you can say I've been extremely lucky. My friend, who swears by his 30-06 and shoulder shots, almost always has his deer run off, even if only for a short distance. I make fun of him too because we hunt a lot in the strip mines and his deer usually find their way to the bottom of one nearby.
Last edited by bronko22000; 02-18-2017 at 11:40 AM.
02-22-2017, 02:25 PM
#20
Spike
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 70
The two deer I shot with my muzzleloader this year one dropped in sight but I spined and must have gotten lung as he dropped and tried to get up then expired within 30 seconds from the shot. The next one I shot was shoulder shot, slight quartering to me and she ran off about 50 yards and died. Bullet went in her left front shoulder and didn't exit, but made it under her hide behind her shoulder but the bullet was just a copper base with one petal. The exit was about a 1 inch long gash about the size of a pencil. Hornady SST 300 grain
All my cf kills have dropped them in their tracks .300 winmag shooting either SST 180 grain or 180?? Nosler partition. I did shoot one with a Barnes 200 grain bullet. All hand loads though.
