sabot help
 

Just walked in from firing off my new T/C Impact twice. Never owned a muzzleloader and have only shot one twice in my life. Now that y'all know about my lack of experience here's my dilemma. I'm shooting .45cal 250gr Hornady XTP's(.452") w/Harvester Crushed Rib (red) sabots. They are EXTREMELLY hard to seat. I've read that tight is good but I think this is beyond tight. I've watched others load their muzzleloaders and they went through nothing like I just did. What to do?

If the sabot is red, it was designed for smokeless rifles, maybe that's why they load so hard. I would think a black crush rib and an XTP would load fairly easy.

This rifle must have a TIGHT bore. SUPPOSEDLY the red sabot is for .452" bullets and black for .458" bullets. So the black would/should be thinner? Black might work IF I can locate some. THANKS

Wrong sabots my friend. These are the ones you need. https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/bulle...al-h15045.html My daughter just got that TC Impact and she uses these with both the .452 240 grain TC Cheap Shots and the .458 Lehigh CF 220gr in the same sabot. The .458 loads a little tight but not too awful bad but the .452's load nice and firm but not hard at all.

Well that's two votes for black. Your link shows out of stock and this one doesn't say:
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...3491150457.do#

Doubt if I'll find them local as we don't have many shops around but I'll try. At least my SIL's CVA Wolf handles the red sabots well so no waste of component.

What powder charge/charges does your daughter use?

The Harvester red measures over .507 loaded OD which is HUGE for a T/C bore. You want either Harvester black smooth (for under 300gr bullets) or the Black Crushribs. Those measure .503-.504 loaded OD.

BTW the black is not for .458s. Im not sure where you got that idea. The description is right on the website and pack. You can however use a .458 in the black crushrib if you have a loose bore.

It felt HUGE trying to get it seated. Only reason I got it done was I had bought a T/C palm saver. Guess I hit the local shops and see what's available.

THANKS all.

Harvester BLACK crushed rib sabots are normally for the .452 diameter bullet. MMP also makes some thinner sabots. The red sabots can be in .452. I purchased a bunch of Barnes bullets and all of them came with red sabots. They were .452.

Green sabots are generally for the .430 or the .44 caliber .430 bullet. Did you swab between shots when you discovered it was hard to get the second sabot down the bore?

Thanks. I may need an alternative to Harvesters if I can't locate some locally. I completely degreased the rifle yesterday as it is new. Lightly lubed some spots but did nothing after degreasing the bore. I'm using BH209 so I didn't swab after the first shot figuring the second would load easier. Not to be. Both loads seated with the same difficulty.

This is the one you want.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/5465

Heading out tomorrow to see what's available. If nothing else I can order from Graf's who I deal with a good bit. Can always buy a few extra somethings to make the shipping cost worth it.

Well I went to all three shops. Not only did they not have the sabots suggested they had no loose sabots at all. Only prepackaged set ups. Just ordered from Graf's.

Sorry Earl, I should have thought to PM you. You could have given me your address and I could have sent you a few Black Crushed Ribs to test.

As far as your question of the load my daughter uses, with the 240gr .452 TC Cheap shots for practice, she uses 80gr BH209. That's about all the recoil she can get comfortable with at the bench. Her hunting load consists of a .458 Lehigh 220gr CF (controlled fracturing) in a Black Crushed rib on top of 90gr BH209. She drilled an 5.5 year old 11 point buck at 211 yards this year with that load. Made it about 50 feet till he was doing the nose dive. So you should be quite pleased with your Impact. TC bores are known to be tight. The one on my Pro Hunter barrel is pretty dang tight too. If you want to try another sabot with the .458's, go with this one http://mmpsabots.com/store/orange-hph-sabot/ Still a tad tight but you don't have to stand on the ram rod and jump up and down :D

I do APPRECIATE the offer. I'm betting the 3 to 4 thousands difference mentioned earlier between the red and black will do the trick.

CONGRATS to your daughter! She definitely earned it. And evidently you've taught her well. But I reckon an 5.5yr old 11point will be a challenge to top.

LOL...Sadly she is spoiled rotten. That was barely in her top 10 best bucks to date. Green score was only 142 1/8". She's been going out of state with me since she was 12 (almost 14 years now) and connects with a 140+ buck dang near every trip. Must be that lucky Irish blood from her mom's side.

Best be getting her out to buying some Powerball tickets!!

Forgot to mention earlier that at the first shop I stopped at was one container of BH209. The closest shop that regularly stocks it 2+hrs away. Thing is the owner and two workers at the shop didn't know squat about it nor much about muzzleloading in general. Our season is only one week so I reckon hunters just buy the prepackaged bullet/sabots and some powder pellets and go hunting. Hence no loose components. I also hunt Va. which has an early and late season. Late starts 12/17 and ends 1/7/17.

Yeah ya waited a bit late there buddy. BH209 is the only powder I ran in her Impact. Haven't tried any of my Swiss or anything else in it. When Tom sent it to her he had already tested it with BH and found that it was the best in that particular rifle. It's powerful stuff. And cleanup is a dang site better than any other BP or Sub. Luckily I was forewarned of this when I started shooting it last year, get you an 1/8" sharp drill bit and about every 10 or so shots, clean out your flash. BH really carbons up the flash hole. I tested 3 different primers with hers and the CCI shot shell primers performed the best. Yours may vary as most rifles have a favorite combination. Part of the fun of MLers is finding that perfect combo.

The hassles of clean up was the only reason I never got into muzzleloaders. Not many I ever talked to said it was easy and the ones who did never really got their rifles clean. Hence rust and pitting. When I read about BH209 I decided to give muzzleloaders a try. Also my SIL was on me to come to Va. to hunt. He's one who thought he had his CVA Wolf clean(t7 pellets)until he checked it a few weeks later. Luckily no permanent damage. I got lucky and found on Bing where ronlaughlin modifies the breech plugs to use BH209. My SIL is loving life now. First shot using a 250gr XTP,a Fed 209A primer,and only 70VU of BH209 hit in a 3" circle at 100yds. Of course the rifle was sighted in previously with his other components.

I noticed with only two shots from mine how the breech plug was carboning up. Done had the drill bit on hand for when needed. I'm going to pick up some CCI primers. I've got two containers of BH,100 XTP's,and 100 Fed 209A's. When I get the CCI's I split everything up then we'll each have our own components.

Wanted to thank y'all for the help. The Harvester black ribbed sabots work great. After three shots to adjust the scope(2.5x20 Leupold w/hvy plex) two shots with a 250gr Hornady XTP,Fed 209A primer,and 70vu of BH at 100yds were 5/8" center to center(holes touched edge to edge). I'll bump the charge up at some point.

Glad to hear! That is half the fun of ML's, figuring out what makes each rifle tick!

Good luck :)

I shoot 240gr XTP's (.452) and have found they load and shoot best with the black harvester crushed rib sabot. They go down the barrel real nice even after shooting

Buy bulk sabots here.
http://mmpsabots.com/store/hph-sabot-series/


How to select a sabot here.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/select_right_sabot.htm


:D Al

LUCKY I ordered when I did. Showing out of stock now.

THANKS,Al. Put'em in my favorites in case the Harvesters can,t be had.

Harvester products
 

You can contact Harvester and order from them online. Great people and are always happy to talk with you?