Knigth Elite .50
09-30-2016, 03:50 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 72
Knigth Elite .50
Hi guys
I have a hard time to make it shoots good group.
I change the scope, tried BH209, 777 in pellets and 777 regular, multiple bullets but nothing shoot under 2'' at a 100yds.
I am thinking about a beding issue. Could you tell me if the buttom of the fork should make contact with the stock?
On center fire I dont want the recoil lung to make contact. This elite does.
It is really all I can find. Any idea?
Thanks
I have a hard time to make it shoots good group.
I change the scope, tried BH209, 777 in pellets and 777 regular, multiple bullets but nothing shoot under 2'' at a 100yds.
I am thinking about a beding issue. Could you tell me if the buttom of the fork should make contact with the stock?
On center fire I dont want the recoil lung to make contact. This elite does.
It is really all I can find. Any idea?
Thanks
09-30-2016, 04:00 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,746
Not to sound harsh but what's wrong with a 2" group at 100 yards? That's perfectly acceptable hunting accuracy.
Now your problem, have you tried changing bullets and/or powder charges? IMO you should stay away from pellets and stick with loose powder. You can adjust your charges in small increments to see what your rifle likes. And change bullet weights also to see what your rifle prefers.
As for your barrel contact I don't understand what you mean by not having the recoil lug make contact with the stock. It had better because that's the portion of the action that helps keep the action in place in the stock. Now if you're speaking about a portion of the stock up near the tip of the fore end then that's different. Some people prefer this. Remington used to put this raised "button" on their 700s. I'm not sure if they still do. I personally prefer my barrel fully floated down to the chamber area (roughly 3" in front of the recoil lug).
Now your problem, have you tried changing bullets and/or powder charges? IMO you should stay away from pellets and stick with loose powder. You can adjust your charges in small increments to see what your rifle likes. And change bullet weights also to see what your rifle prefers.
As for your barrel contact I don't understand what you mean by not having the recoil lug make contact with the stock. It had better because that's the portion of the action that helps keep the action in place in the stock. Now if you're speaking about a portion of the stock up near the tip of the fore end then that's different. Some people prefer this. Remington used to put this raised "button" on their 700s. I'm not sure if they still do. I personally prefer my barrel fully floated down to the chamber area (roughly 3" in front of the recoil lug).
09-30-2016, 04:14 PM
#3
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 72
Well, only one 2'' group, not groups! It might be anything from 2 to 5''
I see your point about contact. I also prefer free floating barrel.
The point that lead me to think about the fork might be the problem is because I can see a print of the fork in the rifle's inlet.
If there is a contact at this point. Is it good or bad?
I see your point about contact. I also prefer free floating barrel.
The point that lead me to think about the fork might be the problem is because I can see a print of the fork in the rifle's inlet.
If there is a contact at this point. Is it good or bad?
09-30-2016, 05:28 PM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
you want the lug to touch and the fork this helps stable the barrel in the stock plus this is were the bolt goes to hold the barrel in the stock. if it didn't have contact the barrel would walk in the stock and ever time you take it out and put it back in your poi well change.
09-30-2016, 05:50 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
You said multiple bullets and multiple powders but have you tried multiple weights of each? I've seen as little as a 2 grain charge weight bring a RPB in from 4 inches into a 1 inch group at 50 yards open sights. My TC has a penchant for hot loads. The hotter the better. You go from 95 grains by volume of BH209 up to 100 grains and she sings like a champ! You may also wish to try out different sabots, different seating pressures (once you find a good pressure try your best to repeat as accurately as possible), different TYPES of bullets, all kinds of things can tighten up a group.
As Bronko stated, 2" isn't that bad but from what you are saying 2" is just an every now and again thing. Your powder measure may also be kinda crappy and you aren't getting consistent loads. You may also have some wear in your crown from improper rod work. Just a tiny little, seemingly insignificant, wear spot could cause severe differences in some bullet types leaving the barrel.
Muzzle loading firearms are fun as can be but they can be the most frustrating tools ever devised by human beings sometimes!
As Bronko stated, 2" isn't that bad but from what you are saying 2" is just an every now and again thing. Your powder measure may also be kinda crappy and you aren't getting consistent loads. You may also have some wear in your crown from improper rod work. Just a tiny little, seemingly insignificant, wear spot could cause severe differences in some bullet types leaving the barrel.
Muzzle loading firearms are fun as can be but they can be the most frustrating tools ever devised by human beings sometimes!
10-01-2016, 06:34 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
I do a heck of a lot of shooting, which can either help or hinder. One thing for certain, if you're trying for tiny groups, you won't get what you may be wanting for numerous reasons. Can you actually see what you're shooting at? In other words, are you trying to shoot MOA or less at 100yds with a scope of 4 power? Are the scope mounts and rings torqued to spec and was blue loc-tite used? Could there be a problem with the scope itself? How about the rest, is it completely solid and an actual shooting rest? Are you resting the barrel on the rest instead of the forearm? Does another shooter shooting the rifle have identical results?
One thing I positively know is, a rifle can be a perfect shooting rifle with many different loads and bullets but, its the little things that sometimes create the largest of frustration. Much more information will hopefully get better answers from other shooters.
10-01-2016, 08:00 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Hi guys
I have a hard time to make it shoots good group.
I change the scope, tried BH209, 777 in pellets and 777 regular, multiple bullets but nothing shoot under 2'' at a 100yds.
I am thinking about a beding issue. Could you tell me if the buttom of the fork should make contact with the stock?
On center fire I dont want the recoil lung to make contact. This elite does.
It is really all I can find. Any idea?
Thanks
I have a hard time to make it shoots good group.
I change the scope, tried BH209, 777 in pellets and 777 regular, multiple bullets but nothing shoot under 2'' at a 100yds.
I am thinking about a beding issue. Could you tell me if the buttom of the fork should make contact with the stock?
On center fire I dont want the recoil lung to make contact. This elite does.
It is really all I can find. Any idea?
Thanks
It would be my suggestion to you that the recoil lug should be in firm contact with the bottom of the pocket in the stock. Tightening the lug screw should then cause the receiver to tilt slightly back lifting the barrel out of the barrel channel enough to slide a dollar bill back to the lug with out contacting the stock.
Something to check - remove the barreled action form the stock and see it you notice what appear to be polished point along the barrel channel.
Actually read through this and see if any of it applies to your rifle. I wrote this up a while back for a member having about the same problem...
Checking the Fit of Knight stock
Rob,relieving the stickiness of that should be a really easy fix....
I wrote this up for a guy on Hunting Net the other day -i will re-post it here. Look through it and see if it makes sense to you. I firmly believe the sticky stock will affect your accuracy...
Quote:
Can i get a little info on making sure i don't have any stock to barrel issues? I have seen info on tv about how a free floating barrel helps and heard of different procedures of seating the barrel. I will beputting a new stock on my gun very soon (broke the original one), and don'twant to have issues there.
I can share some information with you for sure... One thing to remember 'floating' a barrel is not the best for accuracy it is the ‘cheapest’ so that is why you see many companiesfloating barrels. Companies can not afford to spend the time (money) bedding abarrel to the stock properly so the best thing is to 'float' them. With a wood stock the temperature of the barrel on the wood will make the POI change unless they barrel is bedded in glass or some such feature. In a composite stock if the barrel were bedded into the barrel channel correctly the heat would not be a problem but the flexion of theforearm of the inexpensive stock create a POIshift - so the answer 'float' the barrel.
In your case... since I think you said you have a Knight and if you are getting a Knight composite stock you might not have any of these problems. When I put a barreled action in a Knight stock I set the action in thestock and start the lug screw in. Tighten it with the Allen wrench until it starts to pull the action down. Then stand the gun vertically with the recoil pad on the floor. Gently, and honestly i am not that gentle, tap the gun on the floor to assure that the recoil lug is all the way back in the pocket. Then tighten the lug screw up snugly to hold it all in place. Forgot to say make sure the ram rod is not in place.
When you have the lug screw in tight place the gun in ahorizontal position and squeeze the nose of the forearm and the barrel together as tight as you can. If there is no movement – you’re done the barrel is seated on and in the barrel channel. Put the ram rod in and repeat the test. If the test is the same you’re done... go shoot it and give it a check for accuracy.
If during the squeeze test (ram rod removed) the barrel moves down into the stock or the stock moves up to the barrel... release the grip and note if the barrel moves (on its own) back to the original location.Everything should be good - the barrel is floating. Next repeat the test again noting where the barrel returns to. At this time grip the barrel and the forearm of the stock and pull them apart easily. If you feel the barrel stick at some point then you have a problem. If the barrel appears to lift slightly but when you release it - it returns to the original location and you feel no points of stickiness - you are good. Put the ram rod in and repeat the test.
During the squeeze testing if you felt some stickiness in the spring of the floating barrel you will then to do some very light sanding in the barrel channel to relieve the tight spot. You might be able to locatethe tight spot by running a dollar bill under the barrel and between the stock to locate the tight spot. Do not sand any more than you need, in fact in mylittle world the thickness of a single dollar bill is the max thickness the barrel should be off the stock. I normal use a strip of white computer paper for this test it is thinner than a dollar bill - heck it might be worth more than the dollar bill also!!!
Hope this might help you... when you get your new stock and if I can help give a shout....
mike
Last edited by sabotloader; 10-01-2016 at 08:07 AM.
10-01-2016, 10:53 AM
#9
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 72
... Can you actually see what you're shooting at? In other words, are you trying to shoot MOA or less at 100yds with a scope of 4 power? Are the scope mounts and rings torqued to spec and was blue loc-tite used? Could there be a problem with the scope itself? How about the rest, is it completely solid and an actual shooting rest? Are you resting the barrel on the rest instead of the forearm? Does another shooter shooting the rifle have identical results?
One thing I positively know is, a rifle can be a perfect shooting rifle with many different loads and bullets but, its the little things that sometimes create the largest of frustration. Much more information will hopefully get better answers from other shooters.
One thing I positively know is, a rifle can be a perfect shooting rifle with many different loads and bullets but, its the little things that sometimes create the largest of frustration. Much more information will hopefully get better answers from other shooters.
Everything is loctite mounted.
Rest is front and rear sand bags. Rifle siting on the forearm. No swivel studs. Same set-up I shoot 1/4 moa with my centerfire and 1'' to 1'' 1/2 with my others muzzleloaders.
Only point missing, I have nobody to try it but usually I am not a bad shot.
Thanks
Last edited by Salar600; 10-01-2016 at 11:00 AM.
10-01-2016, 10:59 AM
#10
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 72
One of the innovations of the forked recoil lug in the DISC Elite of the time was to float the barrel.
It would be my suggestion to you that the recoil lug should be in firm contact with the bottom of the pocket in the stock. Tightening the lug screw should then cause the receiver to tilt slightly back lifting the barrel out of the barrel channel enough to slide a dollar bill back to the lug with out contacting the stock.
Something to check - remove the barreled action form the stock and see it you notice what appear to be polished point along the barrel channel.
Actually read through this and see if any of it applies to your rifle. I wrote this up a while back for a member having about the same problem...
It would be my suggestion to you that the recoil lug should be in firm contact with the bottom of the pocket in the stock. Tightening the lug screw should then cause the receiver to tilt slightly back lifting the barrel out of the barrel channel enough to slide a dollar bill back to the lug with out contacting the stock.
Something to check - remove the barreled action form the stock and see it you notice what appear to be polished point along the barrel channel.
Actually read through this and see if any of it applies to your rifle. I wrote this up a while back for a member having about the same problem...
Well from the start I am thinking about a fork issue. The barrel is definitly not free float!
So this morning I fallowed my instinct and made a beding... Time will tell if it was the good decision!
Thanks for you help guys, I'll let you know the out comes.