Black MZ (again)
 

I stopped by at Sportsman's Warehouse and got 3 cans of it on Monday on my way to Florida. Going to have my cousin get me 2 or 3 more cans. At that price I am going to get serious playing with it.
From what I understand this sub likes to be heavily compressed and a tight fitting sabot.
Someone enlighten me please.

Yes it will do best with consistent seating pressure Clem.

I've been shooting JSG * Same powder * for a long time now and with great results.

Keep the bore clean, dump the powder down, push the projectile onto the powder and then with your upper body weight, just lean into the ramrod or range rod. You'll feel the powder compress quite a bit.

Just play around with different seating pressures until you find the one it likes. I even just use double thumb seating pressure at times when I am shooting a loose fitting patched ball combo.

I've never had clumping issues before either but if you do, you can just roll the can around to break it up.

For many years i've used the powders made by APP and the old company, Clean Shot. For best performance all those APP granular powders require a tight fitting ball/sabot seated hard on the powder.


The APP made powders are not all the same. They all contain potassium perchlorate and other ingredients; in varying quantities. Want more power from the powder, simply increase the quantity of potassium perchlorate.


i have not used JSG "Super Powder". It may be a re-name of JSG.


Few years ago a ballistician and myself did some testing of the APP powders. At that time we discovered that proper seating of the sabot/bullet on the powder is critical.


1. One hundred grains of plain old APP powder gave a muzzle velocity of around 1,500 fps when used with the .430 240 grain XTP bullet and the Traditions short black sabot.


2. One hundred grains of JSG powder gave a muzzle velocity of about 1,600 fps when used with the bullet and sabot listed above.


3. Goex 2F Pinnacle (made by APP) gave a velocity of around 1,700 fps when used with the same bullet and sabot.


4. Goex 3F Pinnacle gave a velocity of about 1,800 fps when used with the same bullet and sabot.

5. Black MZ gives a velocity of around 1,800 fps when used with the .430 240 grain XTP bullet and the Traditions short black sabot.


APP shot themselves in the foot when they stopped recommending seating the sabot hard on the powder.

How reliable is this powder with percussion sidelocks?

Works great in both my New Englander guns. i use the Winchester magnum caps. The only misfires i ever had were because of nipples that did not allow the cap to properly seat. Turn the gun lock side down while loading the powder and then give stock a couple slaps with the palm.

The only gun I have issues with it in ( along with every powder that is not 3f) is a cabelas hawken with a crappy breech design.

Other than that, get a knight red hot nipple and its will be damn close to 100% reliable. I've only had a couple misfires due to to much cleaning solution getting into the breech and stopping up the powder.

Very interesting how opinions have changed.

This was posted on thehighroad a few years ago.

thats back from 2011. I posted a lot of good stuff once I actually bought it and shot it. I went by word of the mouth which I found out to be a big mistake to do.

Cabelas Hawken is a horrible rifle. This one at least. The breech is poorly designed and stops up with anything in 2fg form.

This in fact was 36 shots at 75 yards with JSG SP. I surely don't look unhappy.


In fact, here's more good stuff I wrote when testing it over a chrony.
Okay guys, I got out today with my .58cal CVA Hawken and tried out the MPP over the chrony and used the "worst" powder possible right?

70 grains Volume Jim Shockey's Gold Super Powder
.020" patching cut at the muzzle
.570" round balls weighed 277 - 278.8 grains
CCI #11 percussion cap
Knight red hot #11 nipple

Chrony was set at 18 feet distance.

Cold clean bore shots:
1405
1416

Swabbed between shots, one patch, both sides with birchwood casey No77 muzzle magic
1431
1439

I'd say the seating pressure with the MPP is very consistent.

I also used the wood ramrod today and it felt fine. Just because not to jerk sideways and I feel everything will be safe to use.

Believe it or not, the jim shockeys gold shot more consistent velocity wise, than the AR15 and AK47 ammo my brother and nephew were shooting over the Chrony.

Bronco, just ask Carlos. He posted a review years ago with chrono data and targets on the "other" forum.

I would be far more inclined to take his word about its quality. Just like all APP made powders it does appear to ignite very easily. Alliant does not list the ignition temps for it in the MSDS.

If i had a percussion rifle i would surely give it a try if you want something cleaner than real bp.

oh so you are saying Falcon and I would steer bronko wrong is that it?

I am very insulted by that

Bronco i sent you a PM of another "review" on the Michigan Sportsmans forum from you know who. He actually shot it and gave it a huge thumbs down.

Come on guys - let's not start a war over something that was stated a long time ago. I tried it about 3 years ago and didn't know about compressing the powder. So I wasn't getting very good accuracy. I only used 1/2 a can. This time I will play with it a bit more. I should get it to work with something.
I have several caplocks, a Knight "Black Knight" IN .54 with caplock ignition, and a CVA Accura V2.

Here all the tests ran by Dr. and Mary Clary for North American Muzzleloading Hunting:


http://namlhunt.com/mlpowders2.html


Then Toby Bridges, in true hypocritical fashion, fell out with Black MZ and badmouthed the stuff.

There are very few things I trust Toby's opinion on for the simple reason, his opinion is, 99% of the time, bought and paid for. He's a good shot, and does know his stuff about muzzleloaders but that little fact just rubs me wrong and you can never know if what he is writing is the actual truth or the paid response. It really irks me because he could be a real wealth of knowledge if you could trust in his opinions. Kinda like a couple others in here.

That was an interesting, well written article. Gives me a little encouragement that it will work well in my caplocks. It appears also that this powder may like to push the slightly lighter bullets.

I only have one problem. Last month I found a lump on my foot at the base of my middle toe. Turns out its a tumor (benign thank God) and I am getting operated on Sept 13th. And a ML hunt in NC on Oct. 3rd for deer and hogs. Being down here in FL for the month of August I only have a couple days to hand my tree stands for the upcoming archery season. And too its my grandson's first year of real hunting. I will be taking him for doves after school and get him used to shooting at birds on the wing. His youth model 870 20 ga will be perfect for this duty.

LMAO,,,Clem, sounds like we BOTH gonna be cruching it this year for deer season!! I didn't go last year, by grits and granola if I gotta get one of my over sized lugs sons pushing me in a damn wheelbarrow I aint missing deer this year!! Aint shot nothing but my mouth, paper and coyotes in a year!!! I'm itchy!!!

When I tried it I found it worked quite well for accuracy in my side locks, I have always used a tight load it has always given me the best accuracy and consistency. I have to admit I like Pyrodex Best, but I live in a very humid area and powders that suck up moisture can be a problem.

Are you saying Black MZ is less moisture resistant than Pyrodex.
According to what I've been reading it is more moisture resistant than both Pyrodex and Triple 7.

Even these 2 kids got the stuff to shoot nicely! All I did was draw a picture on a piece of paper to show them how to use the sights, let them take a couple warm up shots and then they went to grouping.

Holy mackerel MD - I can't believe you let a Cowboy fan even touch your ML let alone shoot it! But I guess they didn't shoot too awful bad.
Tell him that my wife's vacuum cleaner wasn't working right but I fixed it for her. I bought a Dallas Cowboy logo, stuck it on the vacuum and now it sucks again!!!

:lolabove::happy0157: