250g TEZ -- 50g Blackhorn
07-17-2016, 04:53 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
250g TEZ -- 50g Blackhorn
This shooting is from July 11, 2015.
The Barnes bullet was shot into the trap placed 25 yard away. The impact speed was near 1200 fps.
The bullet penetrated through all 5 jugs, missed the phone book, and went away. A determined search using a metal detector, was done the next day. The bullet was found off to the right about 15 feet away.
The photo show the tip was jammed into the bullet, and the end of the bullet was plugged by plywood, and carpet stuff. The bullet did not expand, and did little damage to the water jugs. One wonders if hair, hide, and bone would do the same.
When fired into the same trap pushed by 80g Blackhorn, the bullet did not get plugged, and expanded nicely.
The Barnes bullet was shot into the trap placed 25 yard away. The impact speed was near 1200 fps.
The bullet penetrated through all 5 jugs, missed the phone book, and went away. A determined search using a metal detector, was done the next day. The bullet was found off to the right about 15 feet away.
The photo show the tip was jammed into the bullet, and the end of the bullet was plugged by plywood, and carpet stuff. The bullet did not expand, and did little damage to the water jugs. One wonders if hair, hide, and bone would do the same.
When fired into the same trap pushed by 80g Blackhorn, the bullet did not get plugged, and expanded nicely.
07-17-2016, 05:54 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
From looking at the photos, I tend to agree. I think that bullet needs a good charge behind it. You mention with 80 grains you got normal or good expansion. That just makes me believe that is a good hunting bullet as long as its pushed. So we just don't recommend it to young shooters that want to use very light loads.
I normally shoot my Barnes with 100 to 110 grains. Although I am still a believer in the Barnes MZ Expanders. From tests I did with them expansion was amazing as was accuracy.
Good test. Good information. Thanks.
I normally shoot my Barnes with 100 to 110 grains. Although I am still a believer in the Barnes MZ Expanders. From tests I did with them expansion was amazing as was accuracy.
Good test. Good information. Thanks.
07-17-2016, 12:07 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Using the 80 gr.BH. load it would drop to around 1200 FPS by the time it got to 125 yds. The real question is where it crosses the line that means it does not open and is that a sharp line or is there a wide gray area where it opens some but not well enough?
07-17-2016, 12:10 PM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 9,186
a .45cal round balls has done its damage to the eastern forests. Don't see why a .451" copper bullet wouldn't do the same.
Ive shot the thors in 250gr at 175 yards on actual animals and they fully open. That one was driven by 105gr pyrodex rs, you do the math.
Ive shot the thors in 250gr at 175 yards on actual animals and they fully open. That one was driven by 105gr pyrodex rs, you do the math.
07-18-2016, 04:12 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Personally, i have only had a few bullets fail on hair. However, these bullets put deer in our freezer.
One was a Nosler 260g Partition. When i shot, i was pretty sure the deer was hit, but it ran and ran, and ran, and i kinda lost it amongst the other running deer. After reloading i walked out there on the open prairie; never saw blood. After walking a long long ways, and sideways, i finally spotted the dead deer. Hit through both lungs with minimal damage it was.
A couple years later, i shot a deer with the 270g Deep Curl, which had always dropped deer quickly. That deer ran up hill a long long ways, and only left scattered blood spray on the snow. The deer was hit through both lungs, and the damage was a hole through, and through.
Both deer were shot at about 150 yard. Both bullets were pushed by 90g Blackhorn. Prior, i had always used at least 105g Blackhorn as a load, and sometimes 110g.
This past summer i took the time to test several different bullets. The test was carpet, plywood, water jugs, and a phone book stack placed at 25 yard to the carpet.
The bullet tests done last summer showed me why the two bullets failed to put those deer down. They were traveling too slow, is what the problem was.
Last summer when the testing began, the powder load was 50g Blackhorn. This produced failure after failure. The bullets were traveling too slow, and didn't work. The soft points went right through the test, and didn't expand. The hollow points plugged up, and didn't open. In order to get the bullets to work, the powder load was increased to 80g, and after, most all bullets performed quite well. It was found that there are many good bullets available to us shooters. One needs to be sure, and use enough powder, to get most bullets to work as designed.
The results were eye opening to me; i learned a lot about bullet performance. Until i did the testing, i was under the impression that the biggest problem with bullets was, some would blow up. What the testing showed me was, even though some bullets blew up, they still did a lot of damage. This agreed with what i have observed on deer. It isn't all bad for a bullet to separate some as it passes through lungs, and stuff. It is worse for killing, if the bullet doesn't expand, and just pencils through lungs, and stuff.
Bullets that failed to work when pushed by 50g of Blackhorn include the XTP, TEZ, Deep Curl, and Partition. Bullets that worked when pushed by only 50g of powder include the Bloodline, Controlled Fracturing, and the Monoflex. The 350g BoreLock sorta kinda worked. Most all bullets tested, worked good, when the powder charge was 80g Blackhorn.
It seems parents designing loads for children, need to be very very careful with their choice of bullets.
It seems to me, most of us worry about bullets being too fragile, when we should actually worry about bullets being too stout.
One was a Nosler 260g Partition. When i shot, i was pretty sure the deer was hit, but it ran and ran, and ran, and i kinda lost it amongst the other running deer. After reloading i walked out there on the open prairie; never saw blood. After walking a long long ways, and sideways, i finally spotted the dead deer. Hit through both lungs with minimal damage it was.
A couple years later, i shot a deer with the 270g Deep Curl, which had always dropped deer quickly. That deer ran up hill a long long ways, and only left scattered blood spray on the snow. The deer was hit through both lungs, and the damage was a hole through, and through.
Both deer were shot at about 150 yard. Both bullets were pushed by 90g Blackhorn. Prior, i had always used at least 105g Blackhorn as a load, and sometimes 110g.
This past summer i took the time to test several different bullets. The test was carpet, plywood, water jugs, and a phone book stack placed at 25 yard to the carpet.
The bullet tests done last summer showed me why the two bullets failed to put those deer down. They were traveling too slow, is what the problem was.
Last summer when the testing began, the powder load was 50g Blackhorn. This produced failure after failure. The bullets were traveling too slow, and didn't work. The soft points went right through the test, and didn't expand. The hollow points plugged up, and didn't open. In order to get the bullets to work, the powder load was increased to 80g, and after, most all bullets performed quite well. It was found that there are many good bullets available to us shooters. One needs to be sure, and use enough powder, to get most bullets to work as designed.
The results were eye opening to me; i learned a lot about bullet performance. Until i did the testing, i was under the impression that the biggest problem with bullets was, some would blow up. What the testing showed me was, even though some bullets blew up, they still did a lot of damage. This agreed with what i have observed on deer. It isn't all bad for a bullet to separate some as it passes through lungs, and stuff. It is worse for killing, if the bullet doesn't expand, and just pencils through lungs, and stuff.
Bullets that failed to work when pushed by 50g of Blackhorn include the XTP, TEZ, Deep Curl, and Partition. Bullets that worked when pushed by only 50g of powder include the Bloodline, Controlled Fracturing, and the Monoflex. The 350g BoreLock sorta kinda worked. Most all bullets tested, worked good, when the powder charge was 80g Blackhorn.
It seems parents designing loads for children, need to be very very careful with their choice of bullets.
It seems to me, most of us worry about bullets being too fragile, when we should actually worry about bullets being too stout.
07-18-2016, 04:45 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
I've found over the years and many, many whitetails, it always best to wait for the perfect shot, broadside and relaxed. In doing so, I'm what some, even myself call a "heart shooter". I'd rather take out an extremely vital organ, than to hit a high lung shot. Punching a hole through the heart, or taking out arteries, even with a lessor bullet, in general results in a quick kill and short tracking job.
On the other hand, I've harvested whitetail with lung shots, that I've had to track a considerable distance. Some lung shots (high) may create internal bleeding and a very slight blood trail.
One thing for certain, no matter what bullet you may be using and how it may or may not expand, putting it through the pumping station results in a kill.
On the other hand, I've harvested whitetail with lung shots, that I've had to track a considerable distance. Some lung shots (high) may create internal bleeding and a very slight blood trail.
One thing for certain, no matter what bullet you may be using and how it may or may not expand, putting it through the pumping station results in a kill.