Pellets vs. loose powder
 

Okay,

I'm finally to the point that I'm ready to make some changes. I have a CVA Kodiak Magnum in .50 cal. Been shooting it for several years now. It seems no matter how careful I am I can't keep a consistent group when I am shooting. I've been using triple 7 pellets (100 grains) and have found I get the best results using T/C XTP 240 grain sabots. As I mentioned when I go to the range I have excellent groups one time and terrible the next. I keep the pellets in a zip loc bag with a silica pouch and swab the barrel after each shot.

In December I shot consistent 3/4 inch groups at 50 yards and thought I finally had it together. Then, this past week took a shot, from a rest, at a doe 48 yards broad side, standing and just creased her (hour and a half on my hands and knees and found one hair).

So, time to give up on pellets and try loose powder. Looking for advice/suggestions on where to start and what to do.

Thanks in advance!

Why not try the load you were using, but in powder?

Pete,

That's the plan but there is so much out there in the way of loose powder not sure where to start. Looking for suggestions in that area.

Thanks!

That's why I suggested you start with T7 powder. Start with 90-100gr and experiment with different loads to see what your gun likes.

I use loose pyrodex in a bunch of my guns. I like it, very consistent for me.
The T7 is good too, but the crud ring is much more of an issue that with pyro.
I would start at 100gr loose by volume, with whichever powder you choose.

The pellets might not be consistant in grains.They get chipped and bumped around and would never be the same from load to load.

I use Goex FFF black powder, have sighted in at least 10 inlines for my buddies using either the 240 or 300gr Hornady XTPs in .429 caliber and the Harvester plain green sabots...Every one has grouped great with either 80 or 85 grains of powder...I start at 80 and go to 100grs but have always found that sweet spot at 80 or 85grs...

Over the years I've tried 777 and pyrodex in both loose form and pellets, as well as Jim Shockey's Gold powder, but not the sticks, in my Knight Disc Extremes. Other than horrible results with the Shockey's Gold, I enjoyed pretty consistent groups with the other powder once I found what my guns liked best. I was never sold on any of the pellets for several reasons. I didn't shoot a lot back then and the pellets would get banged around in my backpack and get old. When weighed at the end of season there was a lot of weight variation. Both of which IMO affect accuracy. All of you preach consistency of load and loading technique as the key to good groups. I agree. When BH 209 first hit the market I tried it and loved its ease of cleanup and performance. For a while, I used the loading tubes from Western Powder to measure my standard 110 Gr load. This spring I bought 100 Lane tubes and a digital powder scale. I now weight all my loads and put bullet, sabot and powder in the tubes with different color caps for the 100 and 110 gr loads of BH209 that I use. It works great and I find that my groups are extremely consistent. The screw on caps keep moisture out of the loads and they make loading follow up shots quick and easy. Easy clean up and no crud rings when using BH209 are added lagniappe. That's a Cajun term for "a little something extra."
My Knights seem to prefer the 110 gr load with 300 gr Harvester PT Gold's and the 100 gr load with their 260gr bullet. I use their Black Crush Rib sabots and standard Winchester 209 Primers for both loads. Loose powder makes load testing much easier than using pellets.

I know a lot of people use 777 and a lot of people complain about the crud ring. My recommendation would be to try some Swiss either in 2F or 3F if you can find it. From what I hear and from what I've been told by the owner at Dixon's ML store here in Hamburg PA. It's the best powder on the market for ML's. Plus you will find that it is only a couple dollars more expensive than 777. Don't know why 777 got to be so expensive.

Anyway just my 2 cents.

I have tried everything I could get my hands on over the last 55 years, My conclusions are real simple.
The best powder for side locks is Pyrodex. The best powder for inlines is Blackhorn 209.
The worst powders are the pellets they attract moisture and since those boxes are not seal they can start doing it right in the factory before they are shipped to the store.
_THIS IS FOR CLOSED IGNITIONS ONLY , OLD PLUNGER TYPES SHOULD NOT USE BLACKHORN.
I suggest a little test for you. Take your 777 and some Blackhorn out and shoot them so you know where the impact point is the take enough for 3 shots of each and put them in separate pans and set them in the yard over night then take them out and shoot them on the same target as before to see if the poi has changed. To do this you need a better designed BP than the normal CVA.
Speaking of which a BP with the flash hole burned out can cause your accuracy to be erratic with any powder it is the first thing to check when you have an accuracy problem.

I didn't recommend BH 209, because I wasn't sure the CVA Kodiak would shoot it reliably. I checked and it seems it will with a good primer like the Federal 209a. Don't use the muzzleloader primers.

So, i'll change to recommending it over T7.

i use bh209 with really good results. One thing you have to remember with blackpowder guns is you have to be very consistent. When im testing loads i always swab the barrel with a seasoning patch after every shot...i have a place marked on my ramrod so i know im pushing the bullet down to the same spot every time, etc. Any kind of deviation in your shot process is going to lead to different poi.

Because a 50 grain pellet is more like 40 - 45 gr of loose. If I were you I would start with 80 gr and work up to 110. IMO any more is a waste of powder.

We're going to keep butting heads if you keep doing this. I suggested he start with 90-100gr and experiment to find the best load.

Then I changed to BH after I checked to see if his gun is ok to shoot it.

You shoot replica powder in your flintlock? Think I'll stick with Swiss or Goex.

I ain't buttin heads. I don't know why you're always looking for an argument. What I said was true. A 50 gr pellet isn't a 50 grs of loose powder. A lot on people aren't aware of this fact. And there are a good many MLs that shoot 80 gr of BP with superb accuracy.
I didn't read your post on BH209 until today. And there are some that don't like BH209. But what Lemoyne said to try will likely give the pellets a poor showing. The pellets will likely absorb moisture and change the burning characteristics. The BH209 is non-hydroscopic so moisture will not affect it.

I know about the pellets. That's why I said to start with 90-100gr and work up a load. It could be more or less. Post#4.


You quoted me disagreeing with me. How is it i'm looking for an argument?

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Good grief. I quoted you because I didn't feel like typing the same thing. I was trying to tell the originator that using the same load in loose as he did with pellet would achieve different results because a 50 grain pellet is not the same as 50 gr of loose but more like 40-45 gr.

Yes, but it would be a starting point. That was all I was trying to say. I suggested 90-100gr, because I think that's about where he'll end up.

Out of my 45 cal Kodiak shooting sabotless, I use BH 209, 100 gr for 250 bullet, and 105 gr for a 300 gr bullet, is where I get my best groups, 1 inch or less either bullet at 100 yards, and 2 1/4 inch or less at 200 yards.
But this is with my gun, it is what it likes.
You would need to find out what yours will like, might be 80 gr or it might be 110 gr, your gun will let you know what it likes.