A new Cooper ML
#51
It isn't an issue of rather Friendship has anything to do with quality. It doesn't, so where'd that come from? Do you think that those that shoot at Friendship don't hunt with those same rifles and bullets they use on the range? It isn't an issue of "you" or "me", its getting the rifle out in front of a different group of shooters.
Bestill, whom I've had many conversations with, built the rifle to compete not just in matches, but in the Nationals. There are not many who build rifles like Bestill did for shooting at Friendship and actually the production Knight rifles are very good shooters. I know a guy that has three Knight 1:18 barreled rifles.
So no, Friendship has nothing to do with the quality of the rifle, that's done at Cooper. However Cooper has put a lot of money into a "hunting rifle", that most would never consider because of the price. Get that rifle out on a range and determine what its shooting quality is and it may appeal to an entirely different group of muzzleloader shooters/hunters.
Bestill, whom I've had many conversations with, built the rifle to compete not just in matches, but in the Nationals. There are not many who build rifles like Bestill did for shooting at Friendship and actually the production Knight rifles are very good shooters. I know a guy that has three Knight 1:18 barreled rifles.
So no, Friendship has nothing to do with the quality of the rifle, that's done at Cooper. However Cooper has put a lot of money into a "hunting rifle", that most would never consider because of the price. Get that rifle out on a range and determine what its shooting quality is and it may appeal to an entirely different group of muzzleloader shooters/hunters.
I did not mean to imply that Friendship has anything to do with quality. I meant that what ever happens at Friendship really has no bearing on what I might do in a hunting situation.
I think I can write this and be proven correct - the Cooper will shoot and it will be accurate - probably better than most might think. It does not need to be shot at Friendship to prove that it needs to be shot by you and I and our assessment for other most normal hunters would provide greater weight than Friendship.
Why does it need Friendship to prove it's accuracy? Getting the information out on forums like this will reach a lot more folks that might be interested in the rifle.
Shoot out here we rarely here anything about Friendship nor is it a scheduled event that is followed that widely.
I also agree that the new Knights shoot extremely well. My favorite is the Ultra-Light but you probably would never see it at Friendship as the barrel is to short. The Mountaineer was increased an 1" in length with possibly the thought of Friendship competition but what did that do for the average American hunter???
I am sure Friendship is a great and fun event for those that attend but what does that do for most American hunters? In just my mind - not much.
I would much rather you told me and showed me what you did with your hunting rifle in a hunting situation along with your personal range sessions - especially if it is done non-sophisticated equipment like most of us might use.
#55
#56
Friendship really only reaches a small number of American hunters or even some other countries. Boards like this probably reaches more regular American hunters than does info from Friendship.
I did not mean to imply that Friendship has anything to do with quality. I meant that what ever happens at Friendship really has no bearing on what I might do in a hunting situation.
I think I can write this and be proven correct - the Cooper will shoot and it will be accurate - probably better than most might think. It does not need to be shot at Friendship to prove that it needs to be shot by you and I and our assessment for other most normal hunters would provide greater weight than Friendship.
Why does it need Friendship to prove it's accuracy? Getting the information out on forums like this will reach a lot more folks that might be interested in the rifle.
Shoot out here we rarely here anything about Friendship nor is it a scheduled event that is followed that widely.
I also agree that the new Knights shoot extremely well. My favorite is the Ultra-Light but you probably would never see it at Friendship as the barrel is to short. The Mountaineer was increased an 1" in length with possibly the thought of Friendship competition but what did that do for the average American hunter???
I am sure Friendship is a great and fun event for those that attend but what does that do for most American hunters? In just my mind - not much.
I would much rather you told me and showed me what you did with your hunting rifle in a hunting situation along with your personal range sessions - especially if it is done non-sophisticated equipment like most of us might use.
I did not mean to imply that Friendship has anything to do with quality. I meant that what ever happens at Friendship really has no bearing on what I might do in a hunting situation.
I think I can write this and be proven correct - the Cooper will shoot and it will be accurate - probably better than most might think. It does not need to be shot at Friendship to prove that it needs to be shot by you and I and our assessment for other most normal hunters would provide greater weight than Friendship.
Why does it need Friendship to prove it's accuracy? Getting the information out on forums like this will reach a lot more folks that might be interested in the rifle.
Shoot out here we rarely here anything about Friendship nor is it a scheduled event that is followed that widely.
I also agree that the new Knights shoot extremely well. My favorite is the Ultra-Light but you probably would never see it at Friendship as the barrel is to short. The Mountaineer was increased an 1" in length with possibly the thought of Friendship competition but what did that do for the average American hunter???
I am sure Friendship is a great and fun event for those that attend but what does that do for most American hunters? In just my mind - not much.
I would much rather you told me and showed me what you did with your hunting rifle in a hunting situation along with your personal range sessions - especially if it is done non-sophisticated equipment like most of us might use.
The shooting of in-lines at Friendship isn't done off lead sleds or other sophisticated equipment. Its shot from hunting positions, prone, kneeling, sitting or from a bench with a front rest and the shoulder only. Kind of like resting on a bale of straw, rock or over a branch, a hunting situation.
The "average American hunter" isn't going to buy a Cooper, they could care less about a custom built rifle costing $1,500 or more. They are exactly the same people that will purchase a shrink wrapped rifle from Wal-Mart and be extremely happy with it.
Its all about marketing when selling a product, especially bringing out a new product. Heck if the internet was going to do it, Toby has already done that, yet here we are still discussing it. The hunting seasons are either over or in some places almost over. Getting that rifle out in the spring and showing its quality build and its accuracy is a great marketing strategy that will go world wide, including this forum and the others.
#57
#59
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Lol, that probably would happen. I personally don't believe accuracy measures quality. I feel the same with bullets. The most accurate bullets aren't necessarily the best for game.