Bullet Failure
12-15-2015, 09:32 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Bullet Failure
Personally, i have only had two bullets fail on hair.
First was a Nosler 260g Partition. When i shot, i was pretty sure the deer was hit, but it ran and ran, and ran, and i kinda lost it amongst the other running deer. After reloading i walked out there on the open prairie; never saw blood. After walking a long long ways, and sideways, i finally spotted the dead deer. Hit through both lungs with minimal damage it was.
A couple years later, i shot a deer with the 270g Deep Curl, which had always dropped deer quickly. That deer ran up hill a long long ways, and only left scattered blood spray on the snow. The deer was hit through both lungs, and the damage was a hole through, and through.
Both deer were shot at about 150 yard. Both bullets were pushed by 90g Blackhorn. Prior, i had always used at least 105g Blackhorn as a load, and sometimes 110g.
This past summer i took the time to test several different bullets. The test was carpet, plywood, water jugs, and a phone book stack placed at 25 yard to the carpet.
The bullet tests done last summer showed me why the two bullets failed to put those deer down. They were traveling too slow, is what the problem was.
Last summer when the testing began, the powder load was 50g Blackhorn. This produced failure after failure. The bullets were traveling too slow, and didn't work. The soft points went right through the test, and didn't expand. The hollow points plugged up, and didn't open. In order to get the bullets to work, the powder load was increased to 80g, and after, most all bullets performed quite well. It was found that there are many good bullets available to us shooters. One needs to be sure, and use enough powder, to get most bullets to work as designed.
The results were eye opening to me; i learned a lot about bullet performance. Until i did the testing, i was under the impression that the biggest problem with bullets was, some would blow up. What the testing showed me was, even though some bullets blew up, they still did a lot of damage. This agreed with what i have observed on deer. It isn't all bad for a bullet to separate some as it passes through lungs, and stuff. It is worse for killing, if the bullet doesn't expand, and just pencils through lungs, and stuff.
Bullets that failed to work when pushed by 50g of Blackhorn include the XTP, TEZ, Deep Curl, and Partition. Bullets that worked when pushed by only 50g of powder include the Bloodline, Controlled Fracturing, and the Monoflex. Most all bullets tested worked good, when the powder charge was 80g Blackhorn.
It seems parents designing loads for children, need to be very very careful with their choice of bullets. It seems to me, most of us worry about bullets being too fragile, when we should actually worry about bullets being too stout.
First was a Nosler 260g Partition. When i shot, i was pretty sure the deer was hit, but it ran and ran, and ran, and i kinda lost it amongst the other running deer. After reloading i walked out there on the open prairie; never saw blood. After walking a long long ways, and sideways, i finally spotted the dead deer. Hit through both lungs with minimal damage it was.
A couple years later, i shot a deer with the 270g Deep Curl, which had always dropped deer quickly. That deer ran up hill a long long ways, and only left scattered blood spray on the snow. The deer was hit through both lungs, and the damage was a hole through, and through.
Both deer were shot at about 150 yard. Both bullets were pushed by 90g Blackhorn. Prior, i had always used at least 105g Blackhorn as a load, and sometimes 110g.
This past summer i took the time to test several different bullets. The test was carpet, plywood, water jugs, and a phone book stack placed at 25 yard to the carpet.
The bullet tests done last summer showed me why the two bullets failed to put those deer down. They were traveling too slow, is what the problem was.
Last summer when the testing began, the powder load was 50g Blackhorn. This produced failure after failure. The bullets were traveling too slow, and didn't work. The soft points went right through the test, and didn't expand. The hollow points plugged up, and didn't open. In order to get the bullets to work, the powder load was increased to 80g, and after, most all bullets performed quite well. It was found that there are many good bullets available to us shooters. One needs to be sure, and use enough powder, to get most bullets to work as designed.
The results were eye opening to me; i learned a lot about bullet performance. Until i did the testing, i was under the impression that the biggest problem with bullets was, some would blow up. What the testing showed me was, even though some bullets blew up, they still did a lot of damage. This agreed with what i have observed on deer. It isn't all bad for a bullet to separate some as it passes through lungs, and stuff. It is worse for killing, if the bullet doesn't expand, and just pencils through lungs, and stuff.
Bullets that failed to work when pushed by 50g of Blackhorn include the XTP, TEZ, Deep Curl, and Partition. Bullets that worked when pushed by only 50g of powder include the Bloodline, Controlled Fracturing, and the Monoflex. Most all bullets tested worked good, when the powder charge was 80g Blackhorn.
It seems parents designing loads for children, need to be very very careful with their choice of bullets. It seems to me, most of us worry about bullets being too fragile, when we should actually worry about bullets being too stout.
12-15-2015, 09:41 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Ron.....that's why my system of using open sights, and getting close has worked so well for me. I get good bullet performance without having to use hard recoiling loads. It's also easier to put the bullet right where I want it. It's not for everybody, but works good for me.
For those who take longer shots need to practice enough for consistent accuracy, and be more careful with the load/bullet they use.
That's why I ask you in your testing how far does the shot have to be when the fps matching your tested fps.
For those who take longer shots need to practice enough for consistent accuracy, and be more careful with the load/bullet they use.
That's why I ask you in your testing how far does the shot have to be when the fps matching your tested fps.
12-16-2015, 08:46 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Bullet Testing
One bullet that failed to expand when pushed by only 50g Blackhorn, and shot through carpet, plywood, and water jugs, placed at 25 yard, was the standard 250g XTP.
Now, the same 250g XTP pushed by 80g Blackhorn worked good.....
Check out the Lehigh Controlled Fracturing bullet doing the same test, pushed by only 50g Blackhorn. Note the hydraulic shock, and how the bullet performed as designed i.e. the petals all busted off, and tore the jugs up. The Lehigh also works good when pushed by 80g of powder.
The 250g Hornady MonoFlex also worked quite well when only pushed by 50g of Blackhorn.......
Now, the same 250g XTP pushed by 80g Blackhorn worked good.....
Check out the Lehigh Controlled Fracturing bullet doing the same test, pushed by only 50g Blackhorn. Note the hydraulic shock, and how the bullet performed as designed i.e. the petals all busted off, and tore the jugs up. The Lehigh also works good when pushed by 80g of powder.
The 250g Hornady MonoFlex also worked quite well when only pushed by 50g of Blackhorn.......
12-16-2015, 09:05 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Not sure why you think that. That bullet looks exactly like it should every time. No other bullet can make that claim like Ron has really proven. Another thing I've been saying for several years now people are just now figuring out. Three other bullet companies are already copying the design in pistol ammo. If they can, I don't blame them at all.
12-16-2015, 10:15 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
One bullet didn't work, and the water wasn't disturbed much, the other worked dandy, and tossed water high in the sky.
That ugly Lehigh sure exerted a bunch more hydraulic pressure than the XTP.
12-16-2015, 10:17 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I knew someone would misunderstand what I said. I said I know the Lehigh works. I also know it's designed to do that. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Normally when a bullet does that guys will say they won't use a bullet that shatters.
If you didn't know a thing about Lehigh bullets, and you saw that picture. What would you think? What would your gut reaction be?
Normally when a bullet does that guys will say they won't use a bullet that shatters.
If you didn't know a thing about Lehigh bullets, and you saw that picture. What would you think? What would your gut reaction be?
12-16-2015, 10:24 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Ron,
Your spot on. Hydraulic pressure is the problem im having with the new bullets. I don't remember if I sent you any of the new Lehigh bullets. But the slits in the new bullets are not allowing the hydraulic pressure to build like the bloodlines do. So when those petals shear they don't have the explosion effect like the Bloodlines. Dave figured this out and is working on making them better when he gets a chance for me. These bullets still kill game, but I put them into a category of a mushrooming bullet. I thought at first the petals weren't shearing, but after some tests similar to yours they are shearing with no problem.
Your spot on. Hydraulic pressure is the problem im having with the new bullets. I don't remember if I sent you any of the new Lehigh bullets. But the slits in the new bullets are not allowing the hydraulic pressure to build like the bloodlines do. So when those petals shear they don't have the explosion effect like the Bloodlines. Dave figured this out and is working on making them better when he gets a chance for me. These bullets still kill game, but I put them into a category of a mushrooming bullet. I thought at first the petals weren't shearing, but after some tests similar to yours they are shearing with no problem.
