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The truth about muzzleloading!!!

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The truth about muzzleloading!!!

Old 12-16-2015, 08:26 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Grouse45
I'm not talking about years, I'm talking about days. Open up your new box of pellets the day before hunting season and shoot a fowling shot thru your Chrono. Go hunting and keep gun loaded for two days. On the third day shoot it thru the Chrono. Then when your shocked at what you see, do the same test on paper at 200 yards. You will never use them again. I can't believe as much as you shoot, your not using a Chrono for many different reasons. I shoot at the most 10lbs of BH209 a year. That's when I'm testing new bullets. When I got nothing to test I'll shoot 1/2 that amount. I don't care how much money you have or don't have, I would switch to Smokeless powder for sure. And obviously by a NULA or something else rated for Smokeless.
tom I think part of the problem BarnesAddict's is dealing with is the Ultimate Arms rifle he is shooting.

I believe he already tried BH and froze the BP in place or something like that. The Johnson Ultimate Arms is designed to shoot up to 4 Pyro pellets and it may not allow him to shoot loose powder.

This link will take you to the particulars of the rifle.

http://ultimatefirearms.com/
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:45 PM
  #152  
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Going to have to explain that one to me Sabot. How can a rifle rated for 4 pellets get a stuck BP from shooting BH? From what I just read on the site it tries to say since it is machined with such close tolerances that there is no blowback on the threads so that shouldn't be why. If he only loaded say 120gr BH it shouldn't at all be a pressure issue. Hell, they say they tested it to 125,000 PSI which would take a pretty good handfull of BH to accomplish that much pressure. I'm sure he didn't screw up and load up that much BH. With the .45 pistol case surrounding the nipple and closed off with the bolt that should seal things up pretty well so that shouldn't be the problem. Just trying to wrap my brain around that one is why I am asking.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:22 PM
  #153  
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This is the first I've really looked at this ML. Even if it is as good as he claims. Why in the world would you build it around 4 pellets?? He clearly in my opinion can't have much experience in muzzleloading. Or this is an old design back when pyrodex was very popular??? Here again I don't know just thinking. Those few that I looked at seemed really pricy as well. I would bet you could safely shoot 4 pellets out of a green mountain barrel if you checked with them. But I wouldn't think to many people would be interested in 4pellets. The guy points out his ML is better then some pretty good ones. That catches my eye, but the 4 pellets is a real turn off to me. Least he knows not to even mention a CVA. I wanna learn some more about this ML. So many new ML'S around I don't even try to keep up.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:09 PM
  #154  
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After reading more, it showed its been in production since 2001. That clearly explains the pellets. I'm surprised he has not built a more modern ML in the past couple years. He could achieve so much more with 300grn bullets and BH209. Or more importantly a 1/20 45 for long range shooting.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:16 AM
  #155  
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I don't completely understand his rifle either, and why only pellets...but I will say, that sucker shoots. Him and his rifle

I'd be happy shooting groups at 200 that he can at 400. And yes, he did try BH209 and dang near ruined his rifle he said. I can't remember the specifics, he'll probably chime in.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:52 AM
  #156  
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An HNI Editorial.

To our Members.
There have been a few complaints filed about "Brand Bashing".
There are several ways one can read and analyze what has been written by one author or by all.
While there are some comparisons of products -so far it has been viewed as one person's opinion.
Nothing more nothing less.

Just a short note stating Yellow Triangle Reports do get looked at.

Dave.....JW

Last edited by JW; 12-17-2015 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:07 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by JW
An HNI Editorial.

To our Members.
There have been a few complaints filed about "Brand Bashing".
There are several ways one can read and analyze what has been written by one author or by all.
While there are some comparisons of products -so far it has been viewed as one person's opinion.
Nothing more nothing less.

Just a short note stating Yellow Triangle Reports do get looked at.

Dave.....JW
I'm not bashing it at all. Just questioning the thought behind the pellets. But after reading further it's an old design. Looks like it's built way ahead of its time. Guys pretty confident in what he built and I like that. He bashed some pretty good Muzzleloader's In my opinion. And also knows what manufactures not to mention.
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:43 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by WV Hunter
I don't completely understand his rifle either, and why only pellets...but I will say, that sucker shoots. Him and his rifle
I'd be happy shooting groups at 200 that he can at 400. And yes, he did try BH209 and dang near ruined his rifle he said. I can't remember the specifics, he'll probably chime in.
When I purchased the BP Xpress, I like everyone else, even those currently, wondered why that rifle wouldn't shoot BH so I shot it from the rifle. It ignited and it would also shoot great groups. So I figured I'd just mastered the rifle shooting BH.
Yeah right.... It gas cut the breech plug so bad and after a couple bottles of BH, it was blowing out the gas ports. The action had to be removed, the barrel put in a lathe and the center drilled out of the breech plug. Then a very large ez-out was used to remove the remaining threads. I stood there watching expecting to pony up and buy a new barrel. The entire action and barrel were inspected by Ken Johnston and there was no damage, a new breech plug was installed and the rifle re-assembled.
Ken explained that it was rare to have to replace a breech plug in his rifles, yet when shooters shot BH from the rifle, the number of breech plug replacements sky rocketed. Mine just being one of them. I also believe I understand how I contributed to gas cutting the plug, which may have been related to how many times I primed the brass.

Originally Posted by Grouse45
After reading more, it showed its been in production since 2001. That clearly explains the pellets. I'm surprised he has not built a more modern ML in the past couple years. He could achieve so much more with 300grn bullets and BH209. Or more importantly a 1/20 45 for long range shooting.
You are correct, the rifle was designed prior to BH. Although some may have known about the Ultimate rifle in the earlier years, most did not. It appears that even today some are just learning more about the rifle. There are very few posts or articles about the rifle, short of a couple writers that couldn't get a rifle for free then come out bashing it...

What needs to be understood is, the entire rifle and breech plug system was designed exclusively to shoot pellets and not loose propellant. That's what most have a problem wrapping their heads around, including myself in the beginning. It ignites pellets so instantly, its completely burned in the breech area and first 9" after in the barrel. That does not mean that T7 still doesn't create a crud ring, its just not nearly as bad as in production rifles. A single patch, ever so slightly damp with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine used after each shot, will keep you shooting accurately all day long, to any range distance you shoot. Its an entirely different design than most are used to or fully understand.
Ken Johnston is a master gunsmith. He holds many patents, including mathematical patents. He's still building and selling rifles even at, IIRC, 76 years young. Because of some of the new straight wall cartridge laws in some states, he's now building a bolt action CF on the .450 platform (Bushmaster), that shoots a single hole at 100 and inch groups at 300yds.
Remington didn't invest a ton of money and research into their new Remington Ultimate rifle because the breech system didn't work, and regardless, there are still more hunters shooting pellets than most want to believe. Although some are shooting BH from the RU, Western nor Remington has released load data for it and, as I still understand it, Remington still doesn't list BH in the rifle's manual. Ken Johnston will tell you himself that Remington improved the system, most notably with a much harder breech plug. IMO Remington's only issue is solely related to their barrel, but that's a whole different story.

I have discussed building .45's and also building to use BH209. Its not well received. Not so much the .45, but BH is another story. Ken Johnston doesn't care for the nitro nucleus properties.
Although the rifle platform isn't for everyone, the ignition system and rifles are exceptionally accurate.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:52 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
When I purchased the BP Xpress, I like everyone else, even those currently, wondered why that rifle wouldn't shoot BH so I shot it from the rifle. It ignited and it would also shoot great groups. So I figured I'd just mastered the rifle shooting BH.
Yeah right.... It gas cut the breech plug so bad and after a couple bottles of BH, it was blowing out the gas ports. The action had to be removed, the barrel put in a lathe and the center drilled out of the breech plug. Then a very large ez-out was used to remove the remaining threads. I stood there watching expecting to pony up and buy a new barrel. The entire action and barrel were inspected by Ken Johnston and there was no damage, a new breech plug was installed and the rifle re-assembled.
Ken explained that it was rare to have to replace a breech plug in his rifles, yet when shooters shot BH from the rifle, the number of breech plug replacements sky rocketed. Mine just being one of them. I also believe I understand how I contributed to gas cutting the plug, which may have been related to how many times I primed the brass.



You are correct, the rifle was designed prior to BH. Although some may have known about the Ultimate rifle in the earlier years, most did not. It appears that even today some are just learning more about the rifle. There are very few posts or articles about the rifle, short of a couple writers that couldn't get a rifle for free then come out bashing it...

What needs to be understood is, the entire rifle and breech plug system was designed exclusively to shoot pellets and not loose propellant. That's what most have a problem wrapping their heads around, including myself in the beginning. It ignites pellets so instantly, its completely burned in the breech area and first 9" after in the barrel. That does not mean that T7 still doesn't create a crud ring, its just not nearly as bad as in production rifles. A single patch, ever so slightly damp with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine used after each shot, will keep you shooting accurately all day long, to any range distance you shoot. Its an entirely different design than most are used to or fully understand.
Ken Johnston is a master gunsmith. He holds many patents, including mathematical patents. He's still building and selling rifles even at, IIRC, 76 years young. Because of some of the new straight wall cartridge laws in some states, he's now building a bolt action CF on the .450 platform (Bushmaster), that shoots a single hole at 100 and inch groups at 300yds.
Remington didn't invest a ton of money and research into their new Remington Ultimate rifle because the breech system didn't work, and regardless, there are still more hunters shooting pellets than most want to believe. Although some are shooting BH from the RU, Western nor Remington has released load data for it and, as I still understand it, Remington still doesn't list BH in the rifle's manual. Ken Johnston will tell you himself that Remington improved the system, most notably with a much harder breech plug. IMO Remington's only issue is solely related to their barrel, but that's a whole different story.

I have discussed building .45's and also building to use BH209. Its not well received. Not so much the .45, but BH is another story. Ken Johnston doesn't care for the nitro nucleus properties.
Although the rifle platform isn't for everyone, the ignition system and rifles are exceptionally accurate.
All good information. Im surprised for that kind of money he has such a weak breech plug. But Knight and T/C breech plugs don't impress me either. Savage and the NULA are the only factory plugs that I know of that are great right out of the box.

I'm not a big fan of heavy over built Muzzleloaders. I think that's why I know longer own a Savage or care for a Mountaineer. But Knight really is the only manufacture in business that could try to compare to this. And the Mountaineer would be the gun. After hunting season I might see if we can get the Mountaineer in the same league with this gun. I hate shooting pellets but it will be something to do in the off season. Im thinking 4 pellets and 300grn bullets gotta be a real eye opener on the shoulder but maybe not. But im almost positive four Pyrodex pellets wont get the velocity 150grns of BH or 777 by volume would. I would assume the pellets would be less pressure as well. Should not be any safety issues but ill check with Green Mountain as well.
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Old 12-17-2015, 07:07 AM
  #160  
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4 pellets will be noticed when they're ignited. I do not shoot 4 pellets in mine, rather 3 T7M at 180grs. I use a PAST recoil pad and the muzzle brake certainly helps. However its not as bad as one thinks, unless one is recoil shy.

NOTE: The charges being discussed are ONLY to be used in custom rifles, proofed for those charges. These charges should never be used in production rifles or rifles who's manufacturer doesn't list them as an exceptable charge. Read your owners manual and follow all safety warnings.
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