Do You Doubt The PRB?
12-20-2015, 05:58 PM
#132
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 146
Velocity loss
A pure lead ball will expand on an animal 100% of the time. A 100% is a bold statement, and i'd never say it about any other bullet.
The problem is to make sure it doesn't over-expand, and not penetrate enough. This is done by too heavy of a powder charge.
I've shot round balls since 1980. Expanding is never a problem with them.
I'm not a fan of newspaper, water jugs etc. Show me what it does on an animal, and i'll take notice.
The problem is to make sure it doesn't over-expand, and not penetrate enough. This is done by too heavy of a powder charge.
I've shot round balls since 1980. Expanding is never a problem with them.
I'm not a fan of newspaper, water jugs etc. Show me what it does on an animal, and i'll take notice.
Hence my cow head experiments. The problem with the PRB is its limited range due to the poor ballistics. The same thing that causes the wind drift means the ball slows down quickly. If you have selected a velocity that does not overexpand on your 10 yard shot, then at some point, I'm guessing less than 100 yards, the ball won't expand at all. This is the value of an artificial test medium. It isn't that the medium is an exact duplicate of a game animal, but it doesn't move. It is also more homogenous. I think we can gain valuable information from this kind of testing.
OldBob
12-20-2015, 06:02 PM
#133
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Pete,
Hence my cow head experiments. The problem with the PRB is its limited range due to the poor ballistics. The same thing that causes the wind drift means the ball slows down quickly. If you have selected a velocity that does not overexpand on your 10 yard shot, then at some point, I'm guessing less than 100 yards, the ball won't expand at all. This is the value of an artificial test medium. It isn't that the medium is an exact duplicate of a game animal, but it doesn't move. It is also more homogenous. I think we can gain valuable information from this kind of testing.
OldBob
Hence my cow head experiments. The problem with the PRB is its limited range due to the poor ballistics. The same thing that causes the wind drift means the ball slows down quickly. If you have selected a velocity that does not overexpand on your 10 yard shot, then at some point, I'm guessing less than 100 yards, the ball won't expand at all. This is the value of an artificial test medium. It isn't that the medium is an exact duplicate of a game animal, but it doesn't move. It is also more homogenous. I think we can gain valuable information from this kind of testing.
OldBob
No you can't. Wet newspaper is a torture test, and is not the same as what happens on an animal. The PRB expands just right at all the distances that I hunt. My limit is the open sights. Not the PRB. I've said all this already. Can't you read all the posts, and give one response? I've got stuff to do.
I'm gone.
12-20-2015, 06:04 PM
#134
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 146
Oh, deer!
I'm sorta just killing time, until I can give my one dog his insulin shot. Which is right about now. They say 12 hours between, + or - 2 hours, but I try to run it as close to 12 as I can. He's doing well. He'll have as many days as God gives him. Me, too.
OldBob
12-20-2015, 06:25 PM
#135
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 146
Which ones do you remember?
Isn't that true for any round/gun? Just because you have a modern gun is no excuse to make a bad shot.
I already commented on this 50 pages back. I see more risky shots taken with big magnums than a hunter using a PRB. If anything a PRB shooter should be extra careful, because there's less room for error. It doesn't mean they don't work, but if they don't have the discipline to just take good shots. They shouldn't be using a PRB.
That's the bottom line, and you can't seem to see it. You seem to think if someone should fail with a PRB that nobody should use them. Couldn't you say that about any gun, and any bullet? One failure means failure for everybody?
I already commented on this 50 pages back. I see more risky shots taken with big magnums than a hunter using a PRB. If anything a PRB shooter should be extra careful, because there's less room for error. It doesn't mean they don't work, but if they don't have the discipline to just take good shots. They shouldn't be using a PRB.
That's the bottom line, and you can't seem to see it. You seem to think if someone should fail with a PRB that nobody should use them. Couldn't you say that about any gun, and any bullet? One failure means failure for everybody?
I remember my bad shots more clearly than my good ones. There haven't been all that many, but it really bites standing there wishing you could wind back the clock and pass on the shot. I could take you to the spot where I shot a woodchuck 30+ years ago. I was using a 270, and I could really shoot offhand then. Like, hit a Coke can every time at 100 yards. So I see the woodchuck, and took the shot. He drops down, and I start walking toward him. When I get close, I hear this wheezing. It turned out I had missed centering the head, and had shot off his nose. I quickly dispatched him, but as I recall, I never took another offhand shot like that. I was the very definition of hubris. I thought I was so good that I could never blow a shot.
And before someone says, "Oh, it was just a woodchuck" They all feel pain, the woodchucks and the deer and everything else. My arrogant confidence in my shooting ability caused this animal's last moments to be agony. That too is a correctable situation.
OldBob
12-20-2015, 06:49 PM
#137
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Pete,
I remember my bad shots more clearly than my good ones. There haven't been all that many, but it really bites standing there wishing you could wind back the clock and pass on the shot. I could take you to the spot where I shot a woodchuck 30+ years ago. I was using a 270, and I could really shoot offhand then. Like, hit a Coke can every time at 100 yards. So I see the woodchuck, and took the shot. He drops down, and I start walking toward him. When I get close, I hear this wheezing. It turned out I had missed centering the head, and had shot off his nose. I quickly dispatched him, but as I recall, I never took another offhand shot like that. I was the very definition of hubris. I thought I was so good that I could never blow a shot.
And before someone says, "Oh, it was just a woodchuck" They all feel pain, the woodchucks and the deer and everything else. My arrogant confidence in my shooting ability caused this animal's last moments to be agony. That too is a correctable situation.
OldBob
I remember my bad shots more clearly than my good ones. There haven't been all that many, but it really bites standing there wishing you could wind back the clock and pass on the shot. I could take you to the spot where I shot a woodchuck 30+ years ago. I was using a 270, and I could really shoot offhand then. Like, hit a Coke can every time at 100 yards. So I see the woodchuck, and took the shot. He drops down, and I start walking toward him. When I get close, I hear this wheezing. It turned out I had missed centering the head, and had shot off his nose. I quickly dispatched him, but as I recall, I never took another offhand shot like that. I was the very definition of hubris. I thought I was so good that I could never blow a shot.
And before someone says, "Oh, it was just a woodchuck" They all feel pain, the woodchucks and the deer and everything else. My arrogant confidence in my shooting ability caused this animal's last moments to be agony. That too is a correctable situation.
OldBob
I would never say it's just a woodchuck. All animals deserve a swift death from us. All my shots are offhand, and even at my peak I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that shot. I would have set my max distance closer.
Let's imagine it's not a woodchuck, but an elk. A huge kill zone compared to a woodchucks head. Now let's set the max distance to under 50yds. Let's also imagine you'll never take any shot that isn't a broadside double lung shot. Also imagine you have the discipline to hold off taking a shot unless all these restrictions are met.
Do you think you'd ever miss?
Do you think a PRB will work?
Do you understand this is how I hunt?
If this doesn't convince you. I don't know what else to say, and I won't say any more. I've already said way too much about my hunting. I try to not talk about it. I hunt for me, and the memory of my dad who taught me everything.
12-20-2015, 07:22 PM
#138
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Just a thought... If you could line all the guys out here in the west and for this we will say Colorado is in the west... OK so you have the Mt. men and explorers of 1840's - 1860 and you gave them the choice of rifles, powder, and projectiles of their time showed them the ML rifles, powders, and projectiles of today what do you think the majority of them would choose to use? Especially to a man that his life and trade depended on his rife of choice.
It is the nature of man to move to improvement. But then there folks that choose to remain in place and in time and you know that is their choice and right. We just need to hope those that choose stay in the 1860's do it as well as Pete does. But in real life it just doesn't happen with the majority.
I know I am going to regret this bit but for me this is how I feel
It is the nature of man to move to improvement. But then there folks that choose to remain in place and in time and you know that is their choice and right. We just need to hope those that choose stay in the 1860's do it as well as Pete does. But in real life it just doesn't happen with the majority.
I know I am going to regret this bit but for me this is how I feel
12-20-2015, 07:50 PM
#139
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 146
Baby!
Yeah, I read about Sir Samuel Baker and "Baby", his 4 bore. And about the time it doubled on him.
OldBob
12-20-2015, 07:52 PM
#140
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 9,186
well in the mountain man days they were still using old school technology Flintlock while percussions had been around for the quite a while. Why? That new fangled technology ran outta caps at some point while that flintlock could work with some sort of rock they could find. They were very slow at adapting to the percussion lock.