I look at the Savage MLII and it looks like a outdated 15 year old design compared to the newer cleaner lines of the current Muzzleloaders on the market. It's fairly heavy at 7.5 lbs out of the box. Add more for SS and add more weight for Laminated. I think a SS Laminated Thumbhole is right at 9 lbs.

It requires several tools to take down to clean and it requires frequent replacement of the vent liner. Every 25 rounds to 100 rounds depending on load data.

Then there is the smokeless learning curve. Heat related sabot issue, cold weather impact changes with smokeless. The list goes on.

There are so many newer and more modern designs with tool less removal breech plugs for ease of cleaning and with modern propellants like BH209 I don't see why anyone would want to start out with one today. Even if they were $500 they are over priced when you can buy a TC, CVA or even a Knight for less money.

Do you have the Facebook link. Someone is claiming there was only 40gr of powder and no projectiles or sabots in the barrel. Its also been said he lost his entire hand.

There may have two instances but to answer your question:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/205248626303622/

Search down the page until you see the photo.

Whoever was saying that GM was an anti that has no clue about firearms. Nothing above the powder=no pressure. You would get a little POOF. It would be just the same as pouring some powder in an ash tray and lighting it off. I'm sure you knew that and was just demonstrating both ends of the idiocy scale that are often stated on subjects such as these.

A guy posted photo of the same kaboom on MML's forum. Gun is the same. Shoes in both pics are the same.

Something is VERY fishy about this story.

Bummer, that page requires a Facebook account and i dont do Facebook.

Quotes are from Berry:

"One of the guys I shoot with is friends with the victim. He double loaded powder a two bullets." "This fellow lost one finger and was air lifted from catoosa WMA".

Did you read the post in the MML smokeless section?

Yes. I think its like many things, talked about before facts get totally known. All I see is that muzzleloader is destroyed and its not the only one in the last couple years from guys shooting smokeless propellant or attempting to.

It is a shame any accident like this has to happen, smokeless or not. Its also a good reminder as to why we as muzzleloader hunters have to be even more careful and sure of our rifles. I guess we just have to be aware, these accidents happen and if you're careful, can and could be avoided.

When in doubt dismantle and remove if you think you over loaded don't pull the trigger to find out. It's things like this the gun grabber just love to hear. I have been at the range and some one started talking to me and I forgot did I load it or not? always rely on the witness mark