Its here 1-20
11-11-2015, 06:29 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
On Knights website they now have a new Extreme bare primer system. They made the new one similar to the Mountaineer bare primer system. Ive been very pleased with the old style Lehigh plugs and bolt adapter. The only one that will stick regularly is in the Super DISC with Fed209As. It happens pretty much every shot.
I've always wondered what is really the root cause of primers sticking like that...and why some do and some don't. Is power charge a major contributing factor? Like heavy loads tend to stick and lighter don't, or vice versa? I have not experienced sticking primers yet in my rifles, but I have not shot alot of varying loads/components either.
I saw the new kits they have available. I wonder if when you buy a new gun and request "bare" it comes with the bare bolt and plug, or just the adapter and plug. ?
Personally, I don't think I'd spend $100 to convert an existing rifle...the adapter and plug work just fine and cost much less.
11-11-2015, 07:48 AM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
I think it happens in my Super DISC because the tolerance is not as tight as my other Knights. Ive shot some beefy loads in my 54-120 and no primer has ever stuck in it. Im talking 120gr of BH209 and a 385gr Rem CLHP in a tight 54x50 sabot.
My Super DISC will stick with a Fed209A with almost any load. The anvil backs out of the primer cup. A quick re-firing the spent primer allows it to fall out like normal. On the same range session, same load and next shot i can use a Win209. It will fall right out of the adapter.
My Super DISC will stick with a Fed209A with almost any load. The anvil backs out of the primer cup. A quick re-firing the spent primer allows it to fall out like normal. On the same range session, same load and next shot i can use a Win209. It will fall right out of the adapter.
11-11-2015, 04:27 PM
#13
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
In may old super disc I have had no primer stick at all the breech plug is setup for CCI209M primers and have shot loads up to 135gr BH and a 200gr bullet but when shooting a 260gr bullet and 125gr BH the primer cap leaked and that's with a new vent liner and the primer came out fine never had a stick. just to much pressure. will have to see what the new 1-20 dose with the CCI209M breech plug setup for that primer.
Last edited by a1smokepole; 11-11-2015 at 04:32 PM.
11-11-2015, 05:58 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
I hate all the new Knight breech plugs. I would drill and tap and put removable vent liner in. All the Lehigh plugs are 17-4 stainless steel I believe. Knight said that was to expensive and went with a cheaper steel. Though it's still better then T/C and CVA I like what we originally designed the best. So to make the current Knight plugs better you gotta put a removable vent liner in. If not, you'll wear the plugs out fast due to design.
11-12-2015, 04:19 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
It's hard to imagine that it would be cost prohibitive to use a better grade of stainless on something as small as a breech plug. Not a good sign when a company places small material savings over quality of product. JMHO
11-12-2015, 05:47 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
Me, i think the type of stainless used in the Knight plugs is the least of the problem with them. To me, the worst issue, is the brazed in vent liner. Selling the plugs with the brazed vent liner only creates problems. Since they cannot sell plugs with loose vent liners, they should sell plugs without vent liners.
It would be trivially easy to install a vent liner into a plug without a brazed vent liner. Removing the brazed vent liner, and installing a removable vent liner requires a good machine, carbide drills, and carbide end mills. Carbide drills, and end mills cost a lot of money compared to high speed or cobalt end mills, and drills. Installing a vent liner into any breech plug without a brazed vent liner can be done using standard high speed drills.
Another thing that seems to be a problem with the brazed vent liner, is the brazing process makes for a vent liner that seems to wear faster than the vent liners that haven't been brazed. Breech plugs without vent liners seem to wear better than the plugs with brazed vent liners.
Dumping the brazed vent liners will probably cost, however, it would better serve the customer. The customer can readily drill and tap the breech plugs without the brazed vent liner, so to utilize a removable vent liner. That being said, if one has the proper tooling, removing the brazed vent liner is straight forward.
It would be trivially easy to install a vent liner into a plug without a brazed vent liner. Removing the brazed vent liner, and installing a removable vent liner requires a good machine, carbide drills, and carbide end mills. Carbide drills, and end mills cost a lot of money compared to high speed or cobalt end mills, and drills. Installing a vent liner into any breech plug without a brazed vent liner can be done using standard high speed drills.
Another thing that seems to be a problem with the brazed vent liner, is the brazing process makes for a vent liner that seems to wear faster than the vent liners that haven't been brazed. Breech plugs without vent liners seem to wear better than the plugs with brazed vent liners.
Dumping the brazed vent liners will probably cost, however, it would better serve the customer. The customer can readily drill and tap the breech plugs without the brazed vent liner, so to utilize a removable vent liner. That being said, if one has the proper tooling, removing the brazed vent liner is straight forward.
11-12-2015, 07:30 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Me, i think the type of stainless used in the Knight plugs is the least of the problem with them. To me, the worst issue, is the brazed in vent liner. Selling the plugs with the brazed vent liner only creates problems. Since they cannot sell plugs with loose vent liners, they should sell plugs without vent liners.
It would be trivially easy to install a vent liner into a plug without a brazed vent liner. Removing the brazed vent liner, and installing a removable vent liner requires a good machine, carbide drills, and carbide end mills. Carbide drills, and end mills cost a lot of money compared to high speed or cobalt end mills, and drills. Installing a vent liner into any breech plug without a brazed vent liner can be done using standard high speed drills.
Another thing that seems to be a problem with the brazed vent liner, is the brazing process makes for a vent liner that seems to wear faster than the vent liners that haven't been brazed. Breech plugs without vent liners seem to wear better than the plugs with brazed vent liners.
Dumping the brazed vent liners will probably cost, however, it would better serve the customer. The customer can readily drill and tap the breech plugs without the brazed vent liner, so to utilize a removable vent liner. That being said, if one has the proper tooling, removing the brazed vent liner is straight forward.
It would be trivially easy to install a vent liner into a plug without a brazed vent liner. Removing the brazed vent liner, and installing a removable vent liner requires a good machine, carbide drills, and carbide end mills. Carbide drills, and end mills cost a lot of money compared to high speed or cobalt end mills, and drills. Installing a vent liner into any breech plug without a brazed vent liner can be done using standard high speed drills.
Another thing that seems to be a problem with the brazed vent liner, is the brazing process makes for a vent liner that seems to wear faster than the vent liners that haven't been brazed. Breech plugs without vent liners seem to wear better than the plugs with brazed vent liners.
Dumping the brazed vent liners will probably cost, however, it would better serve the customer. The customer can readily drill and tap the breech plugs without the brazed vent liner, so to utilize a removable vent liner. That being said, if one has the proper tooling, removing the brazed vent liner is straight forward.
The simple solution is a removable ventliner so none of all that you wrote above is necessary. Like HB always said, safe clean and simple.
11-12-2015, 06:50 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
No argument intended, but tell me why not? If you forget to take your ramrod out of the barrel someone will get hurt. If you double load a ML someone will more in likely will get hurt. If you don't know we're your shooting someone will get hurt. There are lots of scenarios that someone could get hurt. Telling me you can't put a removable vent liner cause someone might forget to put it in is not a good enough excuse for anyone who knows anything about Muzzleloader's and loading in general.