question on bullets for BP
 

a while back I thought I read a thread on here somewhere about guys using 45ACP bullets like Hornaday XTP and just buying the sabot seperate.
can any of you confirm this and how well they shoot? is there anything I need to know about doing this and using these bullets

Most avid ML shooters/hunters purchase bullets and sabots separately, so yes it is very common. XTP's are fine bullets...relatively inexpensive and perform pretty well overall. I would search threads posted by ronlaughlin and you can see the results on ALOT of bullets that he tested.

Also, adding more info like what gun, caliber, powder, typical hunting distance, etc might help folks here offer up some suggestions that might help you out.

Bulk sabots and bulk bullets are far more affordable. I have not bought prepacked bullets with sabots for years. Since only 2 companies make ALL the sabots for various vendors, its not hard to get the sabot you like in bulk.

Chances are if you are shooting a prepacked bullet with sabot, you are using MMP brand sabots. The color may be different but its the same sabot. Barnes, T/C and Hornady all use MMP sabots with their prepacked bullets.

I would avoid 45ACP bullets for hunting. A ML produces far more fps than a 45ACP. Save them for fun shooting. Look for bullets made for highend 45 Long Colt or 454 Casull performance levels. Bullets made for 45/70 also work well in the right sabot.

They also make sabots for 44cal bullets. They are usually green in color. I would suggest using 44cal bullets of 240gr or more. A few of the lighter Barnes solid coppers under 240gr may be ok too. I typically get better accuracy with a 45cal bullet vs a smaller caliber bullet.

The 45-cal XTP ACPs are of the 185, 200 and 230 grain sizes. Being these are generally .451 diameter, most times you are safe when purchasing either the smooth black Harvester sabots, or the MMP HPH12s.

You are better-off to purchase the 45-cal 240 grain .452 version and start-off with the black Harvester crushed rib sabots, or the MMP HPH24s. The 240s are a tougher bullet that holds up better when meeting bone in your harvested animal. Fragmentation of the 240 bullet is less common to occur.

Since we don't know what rifle he is using, recommending an exact sabot is futile. I surely would not recommend a short .451 bullet in a MMP HPH-12 sabot. Its rather long for that projectile. There is a good chance the loading jag will catch the sabot petals.

Two sabots come to mind for short projectiles but they are both very different in loaded OD. There is no sense in recommending either until the OP lets us know which rifle he is using and/or which prepackaged bullets/sabots are already working for him.

Yep! :party0005:

The Barnes 225 grain .429 XPB bullet is a good killer on big hogs. Last one i killed with that bullet weighed about about 250 pounds. The gun was my TC Black Diamond, the powder charge was 120 grains of 777. Distance was about 35 yards. Hog was shot through the shoulders leaving an 1" exit hole.

225 grain .429 XPB copper bullet and 120 gr. 777 @ 35 yards = Ouch-Ouch!:eek2:

I use the .429 XTP in 300gr, my buddy uses the 240, we both buy them in bulk and use the Harvester plain green sabot...I've sighted in 4 other rifles with the 300gr bullet and 80-85grs FFF Goex...

I'm in the process of getting a gun now. the one I have been looking at is a cva wolf of that helps any.

While not having owned a Wolf I've owned and do own other CVA rifles and I like the way they shoot. I haven't had one yet that would not shoot Hornady 300 gr XTP bullets with a Harvester green Crush Rib sabot well when pushed with 80 - 100 gr of Pyrodex RS powder or Pyrodex P powder. The Wolf is a nice compact rifle that fits the bill as a woods rifle.
But you will find that if you stay on this forum long enough that every muzzleloader has its own sweet bullet/sabot/powder combination that will make it shoot as good or better than most center fire rifles. And to me that's the fun of muzzleloading. Trying to find that magical combination.

I would suggest these sabots for a Wolf.

Harvester black smooth 50x45 (for under 300gr bullets)
Harvester black Crushrib 50x45
MMP HPH-24 50x45

The Harvester black smooth works just fine with a 300gr bullet also. Thats the actual name of that sabot, not my recommendation based on bullet weight. All the above sabots are close in loaded OD. The HPH-24 is noticeably longer.

The black Crushrib will be the easiest loading of those listed.

Now the important question. Do you want premium priced/quality bulk bullets or typical handgun bullets?

would prefer a good quality bullet. nothing worse than something that I don't have 100% confidence in when hunting

IMO this is one of the best bullets you can get. Terminal performance appears to be very consistent over a wide range of velocities.

Lehigh 45-245 Controlled Fracturing
http://www.lehighdefense.com/collect...ant=3172294980

Parker Ballistic Extreme 275gr. I love the accuracy of these bullets. You need to call Parker or Smokelessmz.com if you want bulk pricing.
http://parker-productions-llc.myshop...listic-extreme

A decent bullet that is somewhat affordable is the Harvester Scorpion PT Gold in 260gr or 300gr. Carlos at Ed's Gunshop sells them in bulk for around $26/50 shipped.
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.c...orpion-pt-gold

This is my favorite Barnes and they cost less than many other Barnes copper bullets.

Barnes 45LC 225gr XPB. The 454 Casull 250gr is ok too and its the same MZ bullet Barnes sell with sabots. Cabelas has them on sale atm. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Barne...ets/731879.uts

Only trouble I ever had with the PT Scorpion golds was finding the damn things. They are relatively cheap and the performance on game is fantastic. They are a bit easier to find nowadays though since you can get them directly from Harvester.

The Scorpion PT Golds are now available in 240 grain also.

Google Ed's Gunshop in NC. Call and ask for Carlos. IIRC they are about $26/50 with shipping.

I still have 50 or so of them GM but I got's me some 220 bloodlines in that shoot pretty well outta my TC (Just under an inch at 100) so I'm giving them a roll this year. Got my eye on a big old doe that didn't drop a fawn this year so I think it's her time to occupy some freezer space. And a 2.5 year old sporting forks that has a reservation with MY fork as well. Getting him out of the population if he isn't run off by my big boys. Then we will focus on the daughter and a big old fat doe she has her eye on. And a big 5.5 year old 10 pointer that she is drooling after :) Like father like daughter, she's after the freezer meat first THEN the burger/jerky/stew meat deer :) :s4:

I need to order some PT Golds but i have so many dang bullets. My SuperDisc appeared to like them sabotless and i use them for practice in the ULA. At "fun" ranges the 260gr shoots close enough to the Parker BEs. Beats the heck out of wasting my BEs on paper and jugs.

IMO the 240gr is a bit light for full power hunting loads. The 260gr and 300gr will hold together better. Those bullets are just a rebranded Rainier with a tip added. Nothing really special about them other than they are affordable. Rainier no longer sells any 451 HPs over 230gr except to Harvester. They sell a 250gr TMJ flat point though.

Never could get the PT Gold to shoot from my rifle. I do have to give Harvester a ton of credit though, they sent me about every sabot they manufacture and still no luck. Maybe I was driving them to fast...

Kinda doubt that seeing as I drive mine with 120 gr T7 loose or now 120gr BH. Your rifle just didn't likeum is all. I know my shoulder doesn't like that load much either anymore! 300gr bullet+ 120 powder load= ouch on BOTH ends but it was a dang accurate load.

I doubt it was too fast. I shot them around 2250-2300fps in the ULA. The Parker BE does shoot better for me though.

Maybe its those silly pellets you burn. :p

Could be those silly pellets, the same ones that just gave me a 1.8" 500 yard group @2,300fps :p

Harvester couldn't have been better and I have nothing but the highest phrase for them. We spent many days on the phone and honestly, I do believe they sent me every sabot they make. Could not for the life of me (us) get them to group at long range. The BE's were ok to 200yds, but beyond that they went all over the place and wouldn't group.

It looks like the Parkers and BH209 did very well again at the last Friendship match. Them Bestill Creations boys are on fire!!!!!

Jeff and Greg are top notch shooters. Anyone that beats their scores is going to have to have their "A" game going and maybe a lot of luck too.

Doesn't it just suck when you try to compete for second or third place?

I think Jason Day with a Knight DISC 45 took top honors using Swiss and a 525gr or 530gr lead conical.

Ive shot upto a 488gr Bullshop with 80gr BH209 in my Pacnor. I cant imagine a 500gr+ bullet in my DISC 45. That would really thump on the bench.

Look familiar?