44 Caliber 180 Grain XTP--80g BH
 

Today this 180 grain 44 caliber XTP was shot through carpet, plywood, and a couple of water filled jugs. Range was 25 yard. Powder charge was 80g Blackhorn.






















The bullet toasted the front jug. There was an entrance, and an exit hole in the second jug. The third jug had only an entrance hole, and contained the bullet. The fourth and fifth jugs were undamaged. The lead, and jacket together weigh 149.9 grain.

That is definitely a beautiful thing. I would not hesitate to use it on deer. I wouldn't want to hit the shoulder but I normally don't anyway.

Many Better Options
 

Well, i hope you're kidding. Many of the other bullets that went through this test, shredded the first two jugs, not just the one. Many penetrated more than 3 jugs, without separating. The 200 grain Bloodline shredded twice as many jugs as the 180g XTP. The bloodline also penetrated twice as many jugs as the XTP. If one were hunting with the bloodline, and inadvertently hit a shoulder it would be no problem.

You even got 35 or so of the bloodline, free.

Nice thick bullet center, overall weight held up nicely. Good performing bullet when shot at low velocity.

Ron No, I'm not kidding. It is my opinion that a bullet should expend all its energy inside the target or at least most of it. Ideally with just enough KE to pass through. While I admire your testing I see absolutely no reason other than greater accuracy to use a premium bullet that travels through and animal and still has enough KE left over to drop an elephant. I'm exaggerating of course but I think you know what I mean. I would not hesitate for a second to use one on elk, moose bear or similar game. But for deer, for me, the XTPs work great and I've yet to have a whitetail complain. But then again, I use 300 gr .44 and .45 cal and 200 gr .40 cal.

I hope my 180 gr 45-cal XTPs perform like this.

I know these 44-cals in 180 disintegrate when hitting the trunk of a soft pine tree. Been there-done that last winter. So Bronko is right about the performances of this bullet when smacking squarely into bone. It will fragment like crazy and so will the 45-cals I'm trying at the range this coming week. That's if the weather cooperates and temps fall into the low 70s as predicted..

Yes i kinda agree with your philosophy, i really don't agree with your taste in beauty, with what you consider a beautiful thing. The Deep Curl, now that is beauty!!

Ethical Hunting Bullet
 

The following photo shows the test about 1/4 second after the impact of the 44 caliber 180 grain XTP yesterday, then the 300g Deep Curl this morning.

























From past experience, i know unequivocally how the Deep Curl works on deer. It works real good it does, yes it does.

The photo of yesterday' test, and today' test indicate the XTP just doesn't get it, compared to the Deep Curl. You boys surely can see the 44 caliber 180 grain XTP is a marginal deer bullet, can you not?

Marginal at best I'd say. Yes, it will kill a deer, but how quick an humane is the question...a .22LR will also kill a deer. Not ethical IMO for either.

Its really simple, what this most recommended deer bullet weight for 44mag rifles and 444 marlin?

I doubt its a 180gr.

I don't know about most recommended but I'd have to guess that the most USED bullet in the .444 is a 240 grain Core Lokt. Used that for a LOT of years before I switched to a 265gr Interlock. That 240 is probably the most used in .44 mags as well. For hunting bullets that is.

Many of the 180-200 grain ML shooters use the lighter bullet for recoil reduction. Has nothing to do with what's recommended.

Barnes offers lighter bullets that wont shed the jacket and retain far more weight if your arm cant handle a little 240gr bullet. The 225gr XPB comes to mind. There is no need to use an inferior weight for caliber and construction when attempting to make a humane harvest.

Excuses for choosing poorly still wont make it a good choice.

Yep. I wouldn't use this bullet on game. Way too many better bullets. Would be fine for target shooting, cheap and easy on the shoulder.

Please name a few 'way-too-manys" 180-200 grain bullets i 44-45-cal that are 23 cents apiece?...... even 50 cents? I am open to trying / buying them.

Lastly, I respect the wildlife game leaders of all 50 states. If a 177 gr. roundball was inhumane or unethical, I trust they would ban them from hunting.

What states have banned them? If none, then please stop this nonsense and quit telling folks here what to hunt with and that they are improperly outfitted. I have never told you not to hunt with your designated bullets and powder, volume, primer choices.....etc.

If you-guys want to pound your shoulder and blast the deer right out of the woods with you magnum powder charges and big-azz bullets, go right ahead. 90% of the time you won;t even have to walk more than 100 yards to reach your downed deer.

But wait - I forgot! You just blasted it another 10 yards with overkill, so make that a 110 yard march to find your downed deer.

LOL, I said "I wouldn't use them on game", not "nobody should use them". I also never said anything was banned. ?? You can use what you want, I prefer to use something better.

I don't know why you fixate so much on how much a bullet costs. That is the least expensive part of the hunt, yet its the part that can sometimes make or break it when it comes to the harvest.

For the avg hunter, they spend hundreds to thousands of dollars per year on gear, licenses, gas to and from hunting, food, etc. Even if someone has almost everything they need already, it still costs $ to hunt every year. Yet you want to save $.050 to $1.00 on a bullet.

How many deer do you shoot a year? Let's assume 2... you saved $2. Its not like you are shooting hundreds of "more expensive" bullets per year. IMO, it makes more sense to use a better bullet or the best bullet money can buy, regardless of cost because ultimately its nominal.

X2 - besides the fact that I believe you owe it to the animal to shoot the bullet with the highest Terminal Ballistic that are available. I keep hoping the old days are gone!

As practical experience and Ron's tests show there are many projectiles available that will do a great job, (including many that were used in the good old days), and many that are just marginally effective.
As the weight of the bullet goes down the options for an effective bullet are more limited.

Right on!! Agree 100% why use a bullet that will implode on impact with bone?

WVHunter your signature line says it all too!!:hail:

The Barnes bullets are not really analogous for what you're describing. Run the Barnes bullets too hard and they shed all of their "petals," leaving the non-expanding bullet base to penetrate like an FMJ.

The XPB, in particular, is known to shed its petals at about 6" - call Barnes themselves, they'll confirm that fact.

So the overall effect is relatively similar to what you'd see from that separated XTP - the bullet basically fails, but then the core continues to penetrate its way out. The Swift A-frame is another one that will perform that way - even if you crush the nose off of the bullet, the enclosed core/base will continue on through with a smile on its face.

I've hunted a lot with the XTP bullet, especially in 44mag, I've never had a jacket separation like that yet. Water does some weird things, especially when it comes to peeling jackets away from cores.

The Deep Curl, formerly the Gold Dot Hunting, is a bonded bullet - it doesn't separate. But it also costs about 40% more too.

Considering i shoot the Barnes bullets at smokeless ML speeds, im well aware of what they may do. It requires far more velocity that what is being discussed in this topic. 80gr of BH209 wont even come close to ripping apart a 45cal or 44cal 225gr XPB. Velocity would be in the 1700fps range with 80gr of BH209 and a 225gr bullet.

This one (on the left) was shot at just over 2300fps in my ULA model 20 50cal. It retained 205gr in a similar torture test. The one on the right is a 275gr XPB shot at roughly 2200fps.

Dang, I guess I'm a very unethical hunter fellows...

See, back in 1977 I bought a beautiful, custom made flintlock in .45 caliber from Bob Watts down in Atlanta...I used this caliber for deer until 1990, when I finished my .54 and then converted the .45 to a .40...

I killed a boxcar full of deer with that .45 and a 128gr roundball in front of 75grs FFF Goex...Never had a problem with deer, in fact the only reason I built a .54 was because of the bear population that has exploded in eastern North Carolina...

As most know a roundball won't give the penetration of a jacketed bullet and the ballistic coefficient is miserable...Yet somehow our ancestors managed to put game on the table for hundreds of years before elongated bullets came along....

So, what do I do??? Turn myself in to the Unethical Police??? :)

Got back into round ball hunting in 2012. Since then i've killed a few deer and about 25 wild hogs using patched .50 and .54 round balls. In my limited experience patched round balls kill about as well as anything else when put in the right spot.



Don't even think about it!!! You will be tried by prosecutor Toby Bridges and banned from hunting for life. :D

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/...ic.php?t=49411

Yep, and I totally understand and have seen it. People think I bash Barnes bullets because I think they are poor bullets, not true at all. For 90% of the ML shooters they are poor bullets. But if you choose to shoot them at 2100 plus they are as good as any other mushrooming bullet on the market. But you still don't want to exceed 200 yards at that velocity cause they will pencil. Its not opinions just facts. But I would guess most game is harvested at less then 100 yards anyway.