super_hunt54

Little poll and question here. The other day I went through all the states regs for muzzleloading season to discover how many states had a minimum bullet size of over .40 caliber. Not very many did. Many were minimum BORE SIZE of .40 caliber with no minimum bullet size listed. A few had minimum posted of .40 caliber bore size and .32 caliber minimum bullet size. And several others had absolutely no minimum bore or bullet.

The question posed here is, how many of you feel there should be a minimum bullet diameter/bore size as well as even a grain minimum for both powder as well as bullet weight. Yep there were a couple I remember stating minimum of like 200 grain bullet and 50 grain powder load.

Edit to add: What do you think those minimums should be if you feel there should be one. Include powder (by volume since that's how most set up their charges) as well as bore/bullet size and grain weight.

MountainDevil54

Yes and for the same reason theres a minimum caliber limit for centerfire for big game.

cayugad

The trouble is, if there were no minimum requirement sure as the devil someone would be hunting with a caliber or round that just had no place hunting the game animal.

super_hunt54

I'm going to go back through them tomorrow and see exactly which states are the ones with no minimum's listed. Maybe tonight. Pretty sore so sleep wont be coming anytime soon.

Something else I should have asked is what you all think the minimums should be. I'll edit

super_hunt54

MD, you would be surprised at just how small MOST states allow CF bullets. Many states allow the .223 for whitetail and a LOT of people use them. With today's advancements in bullet technology they have developed many that are sufficient for whitetail deer. While I personally don't agree with the use of them because you need to be about as close to perfect in shot placement as a human being can possibly be, many people use them successfully. My personal opinion would be a minimum CF bullet being .243/6mm in the upper range of bullet grain weight and sectional density.

With today's inlines and advanced powder substitutes as well as the newer ones that are smokeless capable, we are now reaching CF speeds with high grade bullets being made with high sectional density and higher ballistic coefficient. With that in mind, we can go WAY smaller than we used to as far as bullet diameters. High quality sabots such as the crush rib and MMP HP lines allow for more accuracy than ever before. If we could only get all the barrel makers to use a UNIFORM barrel diameter instead of .451 here and .452 there or .501 here and .504 there then we would have some SERIOUS accuracy to work with and a more generalized bullet selection that we could go full bore with instead of having to sabot.

Gm54-120

6.5mm 120gr bullet at 3400fps will flat out hammer any deer. This makes a 6.5x55 look like a wimp and its used for moose in parts of Europe.

Nope its not a centerfire.
http://www.swinglock.net/65standardthumb.html

nchawkeye

Why do we need more Governmental regulations???

North Carolina's Regulations don't have any mention of a minimum caliber for either centerfires or muzzleloaders, let the hunter decide, keep the Government out of it...

txhunter58

Voted yes but then there are some stupid laws like not being allowed to use a 45 cal for elk??

There will always be people who will want to shoot an elephant with a 243, so I see no problem with minimums

I am not up to date enough with current calibers and bullets to set minimums for others but I can tell you what mine would be.

Deer and elk: minimum 45 caliber.

Bullets would depend on what they are made of and sabot/conical. I personally believe what I have heard from people who have killed way more animals that I: 100gr of black powder (or equivalent) and a 300 well constructed bullet is enough to kill any deer or elk. Shooting conicals, I would have a minimum for MYSELF of 250 for deer and 290/300 for elk. I know with some better constructed sabots, you could probably go lower

Gm54-120

White offered a .410 that shot 400gr bullets. A 40cal 400gr bullet has a fantastic sectional density.

80gr-90gr of Pyrodex was good for over 1300fps with that bullet. Muzzle energy is almost identical to a 45/70 405gr trapdoor load BUT it flies flatter. FPE at 200 yards is still over 1000.

The short lived Varminter rifle with a 300gr bullet produced ballistics slightly better than a 38-55 Winchester.

Step up to a custom build and we are talking about a 40cal 200gr+ bullet at over 2700fps. 416s shooting about as fast as any 416 magnum centerfire with a 375gr bullet.

This load is certainly large enough for any NA game and all but the largest African big game

SuperKirby

It's a tough call. Somewhere, long ago, they must have not had minimum requirements, right? I wonder how things were different then? I mean, did that many more deer die? Were that many more wounded and left unrecovered? It would be interesting to know how much legislating caliber restrictions affected hunting, for both the better or worse?

Personally, I prefer people like the government didn't tell me what to do. At the same time, it irritates me that people find it acceptable to use a .223 with the bulk-on-sale-55 gr. .223 ammo they picked up for their AR. I guess in my opinion, if they're having minimums, make it worth your while. Same thing for muzzleloaders. I'm not going to say that you can't kill a deer with a .32 squirrel rifle, but you're going to have to be a better shot than most. I would like to think nobody would try to use one, but there's always some idiot out there.