A Tale of Two Barrels
 

Fellow forum member lastoftheloaners and I have been exchanging PT's on an issue that I thought I would throw out for discussion.

We both have basically the same gun - TC Renegades with .45 caliber Green Mountain 1:30 twist LRH barrels. My barrel is blue. His is stainless.

We're using the same bullet, Ed Mehlig's 465 grain soft lead conical sized to .451 by Ed. Lastoftheloaner's barrel is clearly a bit tighter than mine. The bullet is a hard thumb start in my barrel. He finds it necessary to use a short starter. The load is 85 grains GOEX (FFFg for me and FFg for him). My load chronographs at 1400 fps. He has not shot his load over a chronograph.

Lastoftheloaners gets hammer reset to half cock with the 85 grain load. I've never had hammer reset with that load and while recoil is noticeable, it's not horrible.

I suggested nipple erosion might be the problem, but his nipple is the one that came on the barrel from GM and has been shot only about 50 times. I have something like 800 shots out of mine.

He's of the opinion that the lock spring has weakened and needs to be replaced, or perhaps was always on the weak side but it didn't show up until he tried these conicals.

Although I've seen a few statements on various forums regarding the possibility of a weakened mainspring, I've always figured that was with traditional flat springs, not the type of coil in TC locks. I have five TC's. Most of them have seen something in excess of 1,000 shots, and have never experienced a weakened spring.

What say you? Have you had actual experience with a TC spring becoming weakened to the extent that it needed to be replaced?

It was the very first thing I changed on mine. Hammer spring, shim set (for the CF barrels) little work on the trigger, hinge pins.

I fail to see what an encore has to do with the question anout a TC Renegade ( a sidelock)

He's talking about a Renegade....sidelock.

Semi...I never heard it before, but it could happen. Especially if the hammer is stored cocked.

Well, considering he stated TC SPRINGS I kinda figured he meant TC SPRINGS not only TC SIDELOCK SPRINGS. And the fact is most all TC hammer springs, including the one on my Hawken, are a little on the weak side. Guess I should have added that I replaced that one pretty quick as well.

I have replaced almost all of my main springs over time - I even make a point of having a couple on had at all times.

And I should also say that solved my blowback problem

I would change both, the spring and the nipple. Get a Spitfire or Redhot nipple.

I have many T/C traditional sidelocks and flintlocks. I've never had to change out a spring. I wouldn't even know where to purchase one. But if the hammer is coming back after shooting, that would be one place I would address.

How did Ed's bullets shoot out of that .45 stainless barrel? I have the same barrel scoped. It shoots sabots excellent.

I really don't know Cayugad. We didn't discuss that. I got the impression he didn't take enough shots to get sighted in with that bullet because of the hammer rebound thing.

In his last PM he said he was going to back the charge down to 75 grains and see what happens. I'll ask him to post his results.

I never thought using coil springs was a good idea for locks. The spring is at it's weakest when fully extended. That's when it's trying to hold the hammer against the nipple. Leaf springs always worked well, and should have been used by TC.

Semi purty well summed it up as to where i am at right now. I dont see why a stainless barrel wouldnt shoot Eds 465g bullets but it remains to be seen yet in my rifle till i get the hammer reset to 1/2 cock problem figured out it was shooting fine with a lighter bullet and first of the 465 g it reset hammer and i didnt fire another round but will get back out to range in few days. Last

It makes sense that the 465s would add pressure on the system not seen with lighter loads.

While far from an expert, replacing the spring appears to be job one.

FYI. I shoot Ed bullets from my 1/30 Knights with amazing accuracy.

70 grains of T7 3F does it for me.

Sorry for your bullets being a little too snug. I size them with a Lee .452 sizing die which sizes them to .451.5. You could order a Lee .451 sizing die that should take care of that problem. I think they go for about $21.

Ed

That would be a simple and easy solution.

Given that he has only about 50 shots out of that barrel, I wonder if a good workout with JB Bore Paste would solve the problem.

Is there a difference in drag/friction between lead and blued steel vs. lead and stainless steel?

Ed thanks, I have thought about that . I have sized your bullets already and wondered if i my gauge was correct because i got .450.5

I am sure you know and my calabers are as I suspect off .....

i have found with hi-powers i had to keep a stainless barrel clean to get best results while a molly barrel would shoot a little dirty. so you may have something there.

I have a coil spring ordered off evil bay , said to be new old stock

450.5 sounds right for the 451 sizing die as that is what mine sized them at the time. However, I felt they were too loose for my .451 and went with the .452 sizing die. In speaking to Doc White he feels you will obtain better accuracy and your bullets won't move off the charge while walking around hunting if they are slightly oversized.

Ed , Semi, and everyone I took a .490 round ball and slugged this Gm 45 cal stainless barrel with my gage it read .
Ed's bullet @ .450.5 the slug @ .445 in the grove and .455 between the grove on the slug.



Semi have you slugged your barrel just wondering if a blue barrel is cut the same ?

what is every ones thoughts ? do this sound ok to y'all or not

Last

got the new coil spring in mail today , it was advertised as new old stock but it is lot heavier spring than what tc coil springs are in renegades or new englanders the new one gages .049 and tc springs are bout .038 nuff difference its easy to see looking at them you guys that have replaced springs did you put in a heaver coil spring than what was in it. wondering before i take my lock apart. thanks Last

Yep, it's why I changed them in the first place. O.E. was just too light for my taste. Pretty much every accurizing smith out there that does TC's will first change out the hammer springs both on inlines as well as sidelocks. The O.E. springs work well enough but to most they just aren't strong enough for heavy loads which you found out the hard way.

ok, I just wanted to check before i broke something , that stout sucker is in the lock and works so we will see in the morning if it fixed the reset problem .
Last

sent a pm to guy got spring from he said sorry that one is for a tc flintlock i get you the right one in the mail . learn something every day, but on right track now.

I occasionally get the hammer to reset to havecock when my load exceeds 90 gr of 777. Should I be worried and replace the spring?

txhunter
If you have a 50-cal sidelock, it's manual probably states 100 grain charges and 90gr. 777FF puts you right there at the max. 777 is more powerful than Pyrodex or typical blackpowder.

If exceeding 90 grains - or even staying at 90, whenever the hammer repeatedly reverts to half-cock, that means replace the spring and inspect the nipple for an oversized hole. Lastly, store the ML with the hammer closed and that will add years to the spring's life-span.

Thanks. I have generally used 90-95 gr powder ffg 777 or pyrodex select. Will see what happens next time I shoot it.

When operating properly that spring wouldn't cause that much blowback with only 90-95 grains.... even 777FFF. I would change it...... new nipple too.