Carpet, shelving, Bullets
 

Today, three different bullets were shot through carpet, shelving, and water jugs. She found these material in her junk. Carpet was attached to the fabric wrapped shelving with spray adhesive, and they were placed in front of the water jugs before shooting.
















First up was the 250g XTP. Previously this bullet was shot through the jugs without carpet/plywood. Today the bullet went through all five jugs, and never was found. Today, 0.1 second after impact is shown in the following photo.










The next bullet tried was the Lehigh 245g CF bullet. This bullet also was previously shot through water jugs without carpet/plywood. 0.1 second after impact today, is what the photo show.












The bullet was found in the last jug.













Two petals were found in the second jug.






















Last, the Barnes 250g TEZ was shot. Today, the bullet went through all jugs, and was never found. This bullet was also shot through five jugs without carpet/plywood; the result today, after 0.1 second is shown in the photo following.

















The Lehigh 245g CF seemed to perform about the same in the jugs with the carpet/shelving in front, as it did without; whereas the other two bullets were very much affected by the carpet/shelving being in place. The Lehigh bullet exploded the first jug; the other two bullets didn't. The Lehigh blasted water out and away, whereas the other bullets had a much smaller effect.

Thanks Ron, the petals are what makes this bullet special from all the rest. I just don't know how to explain or supply any data of those petals to prove it.

Maybe a link to all the Lehigh videos will help :)

Grouse, while I aint the sharpest tool in the shed, I aint the dullest. I'll try taking a crack at how and why they work well.

You have forward velocity accompanied by rotational velocity. When the whole system impacts the petals are designed to open, penetrate till a certain amount of force is achieved against the pre- stressed petals, then break off. The rotational velocity achieved from your rifling adds to the velocity of separation of the petals maximizing damage. The solid core then goes on through, breaking bone and whatever else is in it's path and passing through the other side for 2 holes. That core also looks like the edges where the petals break off are a bit on the sharp side as well.

I would imagine this would be a fairly hard system to come up with for various game. Being that all big game are of different hide thickness and bone structure so calculating the precise depth to stress the petals to maximize penetration before separation to cause the most damage would be difficult at best.

Sounds pretty good to me. Keep in mind, the petals dont shear until they hit a liquid. So it's going threw all hides before they start to shear

Hmmmm so they are dependent upon Hydraulic dynamics? I'll have to think on that for a bit and maybe brush up on my physics a tiny bit to figure out how that would work. Maybe the resistant pressure placed on the OUTSIDE of the bullet while passing through a solid material then when it enters a fluidic region the fluid enters into the hollow point and creates the needed force through hydraulics to open and separate the petals. Okay damnit now my head hurts! And it suddenly got smokey in here! :eek2:

Lol, don't think to much!!

Ron,
Would you mind testing the new XP bullet? I'm not sure what to think of the new design, but I think your test would show something. I'll send you bullets and sabots to try it if you will.

No problem for me to test them, if you send some. Have no opinion of the bullet, because we are required by regulation to use 'soft point' bullet.

Would have liked to have seen the other two bullets recovered....

super_hunt54
I wonder if the air in the hollow point would not be compressed to a liquid and add considerable to the explosive effect?

Lee,
The new bullets have slots where the air can get out. Plus, if it was possible the petals would shear in flight right???

Do the petals stay on the Lehigh if the test has no liquid?

Ding Ding Ding and folks we have a winning question!! Same one entered my smoking brain last night! Say I went for my favorite High shoulder shot (with firearm)? Not a very liquid environment there if I went high just going for spine. Just dense muscle tissue and bone. Now granted an animals body isn't like a bag of blood but the organs and arteries provide a pretty liquid source for hydraulic operation but a shot like a high shoulder wouldn't provide very much liquid. Not if I went about 2 inches higher than normal anyway.

Im almost positive the bullet then works like a conventional mushrooming bullet. The petals open but don't shear. I'll find out for sure. It's been so long now I forget!!

per the Lehigh site

Lehigh originated Controlled Fracturing Technology. These bullets are designed to deliver maximum terminal performance. Controlled Fracturing bullets are produced from either solid copper or solid brass and are pre-stressed at specific points so that after a predetermined penetration depth, the razor-edge petals deploy, releasing an energy spike and then separate and radiate outward from the primary path of the bullet. The bullet shank, now back to bore diameter, continues penetrating straight and deep along the initial impact path.

Unlike traditional expanding bullets which mushroom and dramatically limit the bullet's penetration and provide only one wound path, Lehigh's Controlled Fracturing ammunition creates an initial energy transfer, multiple wound paths, and a deep penetrating base – a far more effective bullet.

In hunting applications, this unique terminal performance provides multiple projectiles which will penetrate vital organs and blood vessels, increasing the amount of tissue damage and leading to more blood loss. In addition to the damage these petals inflict, the main shank or base of the bullet is designed to penetrate the off side hide creating a better blood trail should you need it.

Our Controlled Fracturing bullet offers another distinct advantage. Since you are getting multiple projectiles radiating out, away and forward from the primary bullet path inside the animal, the Controlled Fracturing bullet compensates for small point of aim - point of impact errors. Imagine that buck fever causes you to pull your shot so that it strikes two inches from the heart or lungs. With the Controlled Fracturing bullet, it will be almost impossible for one of the petals to not penetrate these organs.

In personal defense applications, Controlled Fracturing technology is the most effective way to neutralize a threat. In an extreme high stress situation, where shot placement is likely not going to be perfect, this technology provides multiple wound channels coupled with a large energy transfer and a deep penetrating base, meeting all of the requirements for stopping a threat instantly.


A minimum of four separate wound channels resulting in extensive damage


CNC machined from solid copper or brass, not formed or swaged


Exceptional accuracy from the advanced manufacturing process


Razor sharp petals for maximum terminal performance


Deep penetrating base projectile


Expansion is initiated by hydraulic energy – expansion only where it is required

a video with more info.

Too bad we can't do the ultimate test. Two animals shot under the same conditions. One with Lehigh, and one with a Barnes.

All the other test are just what we think it means compared to shooting game.

I shot a nice smaller antlered buck high through the neck and out just under the spine the bullet exited the side over the shoulder with a nice neat hole. I am sure the petals were off. At least one of the petals pierced the spinal cord the cow dropped like a rock. And the wound bled out as the heart actually kept pumping for awhile (really not a good story but it happened.









There is not a lot of liquid up there but enough...

Here is another example of a deer shot high with a Lehigh Bloodline. Got the spinal cord again with a petal. I really did feel bad for this buck. I shot him out of frustration while hunting elk - he was a target of opportunity - but shot at 60 yards with a Lehigh .458x305 gr. 45-70 rifle bullet in a MMP Orange sabot.









Also and Tom should have remembered, he has shot sandwich zip lock bags with water in them and a paper target behind the bag - the bullet and the petals exited the bag with the bullet in the center and the petals radiating out from the bullet hole in the paper target.

I've shot hundreds of Deer with Barnes bullets. 195 Barnes, both 250 and 300grn MZ Expanders, 300grn Barnes originals in the Savage, 275grn XPB's, none of those Barnes are even close on killing Deer size game. Never shot any large game with Barnes. The only bullets that perform close to Lehigh's that I have used are the 275grn PArker ballistic Extremes, and 40cal 260 DeadCenters. But to be honest, they are pretty distant as well. I guess 5 years later or so people are starting to understand the process and more reports I'm sure will start showing up on the boards!!

You'll end up with 2 dead deer.

Yep you are exactly RIGHT!

But in most cases with the Lehigh and as old as I am it is important I want it dead now! no tracking - no running and I hate packing it back up hill. A minor thing for most but here in north Idaho it ain't very flat.

I use the gutless method. Do those petals ever reach the paunch?

It may be flatter here, but the properties can be just 10 acres, with different owners, all of which have their own set of "rules" and they don't like each other. So the assured DRT shot is always the higher shoulder shot.

For me, shooting Bloodlines, it has never happened and I have been pretty close more than once - to close (but I am knocking on wood). On a frontal shot the petals will be off long before the bullet could enter through the diaphragm. On broadside shot behind the heart and in front of the diaphragm I have not had one penetrate the diaphragm. Like I said been close a couple of times. But the diaphragm is a pretty tough flexible muscle tissue.

Yes I think I see your point - but I do not even have to worry about high should shots. And 10 acres is huge.

If you look at those two examples of the deer both of those shots were way high and just under the back bone and zero steps after the shot. I wish I could say 100% of the time but not always true.

Too bad Carlos dropped the Lehigh line. What's the cheapest place to buy them?

Lehigh Defense

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collect...s/muzzleloader

+ $5 shipping on any amount of bullets. Cheapest shipping in the west! Well is Colorado consider in the west or is it with the Dakotas?:D:D

What sabots should I try for a MK-85?

What size bullet are thinking to order?

Went out today with a metal detector. It took awhile, but the Barnes was found about 15' away to the right.

What was the muzzle velocity?

I think that is one of the points Ron is trying show. The gun was loaded with 50 gr. BH if I remember correctly and the target was 25 yards away. The bullet is fired through the carpet/plywood into the jugs. I THINK part of the experiment was to see if passing through the exterior material and into the jugs had an effect on the bullet. Apparently the material had little effect on the bullet except pushing out the tip and collecting some carpet fibers in the nose - then traveling into the water it did not have enough energy (speed) to open the bullet. I also think it was a simulation of what a bullet might operate like at 200 yards. I am sure Ron will clarify this better than I since it is his experiment.

Ron, you are really persistent about your experimental procedures. Really persistent to go back and look with a metal detector. But it certainly was a good discovery to help answer any questions.

The nose of the Barnes seemed to be jammed with the wood from the center ply, of the plywood shelf. Took out my knife, and worked at cleaning the 'stuff' out of there, and it turned red.













Evidently that is the red fabric that the shelf was wrapped with. Further work with the knife revealed black stuff.














Seems that is the carpet backing. The knife got too big to fit, so used a sharp pointy thing, and worked some more.











Then some real serious digging went on for quite awhile, and the result:

Most hunting with BH are using 110grs volume. The reason for asking about velocity is, at 200yds the velocity with that charge and bullet (Barnes) remains at around 1,450fps, dropping to around 1,215fps at 300yds.

Barnes claims it will expand down to 1200fps.

Yes, yes it will. It did the day the Barnes TEZ--Jugs thread was written. The speed of the bullet at impact was a tad less than 1200 fps.

50gr out of that rifle of his SHOULD have produced around 1250-1350fps or thereabouts at 25 yards. Looks to me like I will be just using those bullets at the range and using my new CF's on deer! If I wanted a bullet just to punch through I would have made up some hard connies. They LOOK like they are "expanding" but they aint. I've hit big boars with them at 10 yards fully loaded 130gr T7 and they just punched right through. Barely slowing down :s2: Granted a 350 grain bullet slamming through an animals shoulders will definitely kill the beastie, on a deer, I don't want to have to track the damn thing for 200 yards. I'm just too damn old for dragging a deer for a mile or 2 anymore. It seems no matter WHERE I shoot the animal, it never runs TOWARDS my damn truck! It's like they just know!

Just had a thought (shup Sabot I know it's rare :s2: ) But maybe the medium you shot it through created the problem. That hollow was filled up with crap and in there pretty damn tight. so NO hydraulic influence at all! You think those bullets depend upon hydraulic pressure like the CF's?