Speaking of Scopes
 

After WV Hunter's comment in another thread about how the Cabala's Powderhorn scope just "didn't feel right" to him, which I found to be the case also, I got to thinking about what would be my ideal muzzle loader scope.

Here's what I would want.

- Fixed power - 5X with a 100 yard parallax setting.
- Finger adjustable windage and elevation dials with 1/4" MOA adjustments.
- Plex crosshairs with BDC stadia lines (not those damn circles that Nikon uses).
- Zero re-set turrets.
- Fast focus eyepiece.
- Reasonably inexpensive.

Then I went searching the manufacturers to see if such a critter exists. The closest thing I could find to my ideal was the Vortex Diamondback 1.75-5x32 Matte Plex BDC Rifle Scope. It only fails on two points, being a variable and having BDC dots instead of stadia lines.

Found the best price at Optics Planet. They're quite a bit more than my much loved $50 Simmons ProDiamonds, but I ordered one anyway. http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-r...dbk-m-08p.html

I have a Vortex Diamondback 4x12 on my .22 Hornet and it's a great scope. So I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with the 1.75x5 on a muzzleloader.

If any of you guys are interested in trying a used 3x10 BDC Powdern scope, I paid $60.94 for it on sale back in February, 2012. You can have it for $40 shipped to your door.

While the Powderhorn does "feel awkward" somewhat, I think I can get used to it rather easy. If I had to pick the perfect muzzleloader scope it would be a 2-7x32mm Like the Nikon Pro Staff. Its inexpensive, under $150.00 and for the distances I have to shoot, its perfect. Its glass clarity, light gathering ability, and overall dependability so far, just makes it an outstanding value.

Yet its funny when you talk scopes. When I hunt from a tree stand in thick brush, one of my go to rifles and scopes is a Knight LK-II with a Simmons 2.5-20mm scope. Granted you're not seeing a huge area, but it gathers like as if it sucks it in, and for close work, and the fact I don't take speed shots, it makes a perfect near, tree stand 50 yards or less rifle scope.

The way my eyes are getting I've been thinking of trying to find a way to mount one of these babies on my gun:biggrin:

in all seriousness, the Vortex scopes are some great scopes. I have 2 Vipers that I use on my long range guns. They are just nice scopes for the money.

For my shooting - mainly heavy cover with shots usually less than 75yds, infrequent to 150ys, absolute max at 200yds - if I could only have one, I would likely stick with a fixed power 4x similar to the Simmons I have, but with slightly better optics and a more versatile reticule. The Prodiamond reticule, while great in close, is a little too thick at range. My other ML scope is a Vortex Viper 2-7x32 (now discontinued) and has a near perfect reticule;


Versa-Plex C3 Reticle


Not too thick but great for quick target acquisition. Alas, there are very few fixed scope options left. In fact, I can only find one other scope, the Swift Reliant 4x32 that might fit my wants. In any case, I am pretty happy with my cheapo Simmons ProDiamond and my pretty high-end Vortex Viper.

Pretty hard to beat the Redfield Revenge for a Muzzleloader.

The Vortex are nice. A friend of mine has a couple and really likes them. Seems they are really gaining some market share, and have a good reputation. I'll probably get one someday to try out.

The scope I just put on my .45 Disc Elite is a Sightron S1 3-9x40 with HHR reticle.

I bought it a couple years ago when they were blowing them out cheap. They have since replaced that model with the S1 Hunter model. A newer and supposedly slightly better version.

Here is the current model: http://swfa.com/Sightron-3-9x40-SI-H...pe-P65959.aspx

For me, I can't stand clutter in the scope that most BDC type reticles have. This S1 has a very simple reticle, that isn't distracting (to me). I like Nikons & Redfields.... great scopes. I just don't like the reticles. Same with Leupolds ML scope, don't like it.

I have a bunch of Sightrons, very happy with them. I have 4 on ML's right now, one that has been shot a bunch. Never had an issue, and they have lifetime warranty if I ever do. They are clear and crisp, good eye relief. Solid quality scopes with a fair price. Their upper end stuff is VERY good. I have a Big Sky on one of my CF rifles, it is sweet! Lower end is pretty good, especially for the price. Very similar to most of the quality scope companies lower end models. Pretty much that and Leupold are all thats on my guns right now.

Unbeknownst to either of us, i tried to satisfy your criteria for a scope, a couple three years ago. The photo shows it mounted on the Dream Season.










It is a 1.5-5 variable, not fixed 5X; it is usually set about 3X, when i am trying to sneak. The zero parallax distance is 150 yard, not 100 yard, but that doesn't matter; there is zero error if my eye is centered, and if my eye is off center the error at 100 yards is less than 1/8".











It does have finger adjustable dials, and zero reset turrets. It doesn't have a fast focus eye piece, and that is just dandy; those things are not my cup of tea.













It doesn't have stadia lines; just a plain old plex reticle. However, it does have an elevation dial specially engraved in yards, for the rifle, bullet, and powder.

I hunt the timber, and don't take long shots. I use a 1.5x4.5x33, and pretty much leave it on 2x.

Over the years i've had numerous scopes on my inline muzzleloaders. Never liked the Cabela's Powderhorn scope. My TC Black Diamond has the excellent 3X9X40 Minox ZA-3 scope. It has an uncluttered BDC reticle. There are three horizontal lines. The top line has a hack mark either side of the vertical line.

Load is the 250 grain SST bullet in a crush rib sabot driven by 130 grains of Black MZ powder. The rifle is sighted to put the bullet in the center of a 2" bullseye at 125 yards. Using the center line of the BDC reticle, the bullet hits a 4" bullseye just below center at 200 yards.

My .358 Norma magnum rifle has the same scope.

I'm just the opposite Ron. It's one of my favorite features. I'm about at the point if a scope does not have the fast focus eye piece I don't want it.

Yep, we are indeed opposite about the eye piece. Me, i like the focus to be 'locked', while i am traipsing around looking for something to kill. You know, i kinda feel about the loose focus, the same as i feel about breech plugs that can be readily removed without a tool. Both, to me, are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and may very well may be a problem, where there was none.

I don't consider a finger removed BP as solving a problem, but more of a nice feature to have.

Solved the problem of having to stand on a damn wrench and jump up and down to break one loose that got crudded the heck up. I love the heck outta my easily removed BP from TC! Was almost like a dream come true!

A 3-9x40 or 50mm is what I consider my ideal scope. Almost exclusively, my shots are less than 100 yards and a significant portion are 'bow range'. The 9 power is nice to be able to crank up when needed but I keep it on 4x. I like the 40 or even 50mm scope for the light gathering capabilities.

I'll take a bit less light to have a scope mounted low for a better cheek weld.

Ah the differences in locations, hunting conditions and preferences....

Because I may hunt either the woods or over large agricultural fields, I prefer a variable for shots that could range from 40yds to 300yds. My specific choice was the Leupold VX6 3-18x50 CDS w/Firedot, which maintains its zero at any magnification.

The CDS turret, like Ron's, was made for the specific load I'm sending in yardage. The rifle is zeroed at 200yds, then any change in distance is just dialed on the turret, marked in 50yd increasements. Only a single reticle with less task saturation than multi-reticle scopes.

The custom McMillan stock keeps the cheek welded.

For the T/C plains rifle the muzzle loader I bought just for the purpose of putting a scope on I installed a T/C take down mount with a old Weaver K4 fixed 4 power I got at a yard sale for $5.00.It has worked flawless for going on 30 years now. I also have one on a 22 rim fire I found at a pawn shop for $10.00 after the guy figured no one was going to pay him $50.00 for it.



:D Al

Thats an awesome scope Barnes Addict! :D Wish I had me a few of those!!

I think where Semi was going with this thread (correct me if I'm wrong) ... was finding a scope that fits his criteria/needs/wants that is of pretty good quality AND not super expensive.

If money wasn't ever an issue, we could all find what we want that fits our needs and desires. Heck, Leupold literally has about 150 options and a custom shop above that, and obviously they make quality stuff. Other top end manufacturers are similar.

The problem is finding something that fits our needs/wants/desires, and does the job well - and is within budget. There really aren't alot of options in the "pretty good quality / easy on the wallet" category. Lower end scopes by Leupold, Vortex, Sightron, Redfield, Nikon...and probably a few others. Then it becomes which of those fit your personal desires.

For me personally, if $ was never an issue, I'd probably have upper end Leupolds on everything I own. But as it is, I can't justify that - I have too many guns, most don't get shot much at all, or not nearly enough to justify spending that $ on. So I (like many of you probably) have to find a reasonable alternative that combines needs/personal preferences/quality/budget. For me, it has been the lower end Sightrons. I'm sure there are several others that would fit for me as well, I've just had good luck with them and so thats why I've been partial to them, considering quality/price/features.

18x for 300yds? Seems a bit much.

A 4x scope at 300yds will be the same as 1x scope will be at 75yds.

One criterion Semisane didn't include in his list is weight. Weight has always been one of my major concerns, because of the way my hunting is done. This has led me to own three 4X scopes that weigh 9.3 ounces each. The 1.5-5 scope i mentioned in a previous post weighs 9.5 ounces. Yes, i like to keep weight to a minimum; this eliminates a lot of possibilities. A lot of my shooting/hunting is done with a light 4X scope, and experience has shown; one can shoot past 1/4 mile with just a 4X scope, and have fun doing it.

My concern about weight led to a bad scope choice once. A light scope is the Leupold 3-9 ultra-light. Yes, i own one, and am afraid to use it on my rifles, because of the short eye-relief. It is reliable, clear, and light, but it doesn't get used. It now sits on an AR-15, and wow, every now and then, it is used to hit pop cans at 700 yards. The 223 doesn't recoil like a muzzle loader.

18x at 300yds helps me shoot 1 5/8" groups and it really helps at 400yds.

I really liked the Nikon Monarch scopes I've owned, all 2.5-10 and they were very clear. However they all were sent back for repair at one time or another. Another scope I like for light recoiling rifles (17HMR) is the Simmons Aetec. It was very reasonable in price, clear and works well with light recoil of the 17, but I'd never trust it on the muzz.

That may be an issue for some, but that's never been an issue for me.

I think you're correct WV. It's funny, I own a 3-9x50 VII Leupold as well as several Bushnell Banner 3-9x40s. The Bushnell is literally a 1/4 of the price and I find it suits my hunting style just perfect. I love my Leupold but it's not 4 times as good in my opinion.

That's it TN.

LOL Semi :D

Funny you should say that. The 1.5x4.5x33 scope I put on the MR is a Bushnell Banner. It cost me $69. It has very clear glass, good at low light, and holds a zero. Plus, it just weighs 10oz. I know it's a low end scope, but it sure gives me everything I need in a scope.

A perfect timber hunting scope for those with skinny wallets.

I paid almost as much for the DNZ scope mount. :D

Search in gun safe uncovered rifles and scopes, 3 Simmons, 2 Weavers, 6 Bushnell's, 2 trophy's and the rest Banners, 2 Pentex's, 2 Leopold's which came on used rifles I bought. If I were to have a unlimited amount of money to by a scope with I would by Pentex first and Bushnell's second and Simmons third.
I have Bushnell's that are over 40 years old and not one problem. One very expensive Leopold was sent back to the factory after 8 months.

:D Al