Testing the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
 

As I had planned I was able to get out to the farm mid-morning to do some shooting using the new Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator Brass muzzleloader bullet.

I really should say when I first heard about this new bullet - even when the new bullet was a copper pistol bullet and I think GregK first posted about the new bullet. I was really not that interested or inclined to think a non expanding solid brass or even copper bullet would hold any interest for me. UNLESS, I was considering hunting 'dangerous game'. The 'BULLET' did get more of my attention when I looked on the new Lehigh Web Site and checked out the penetration and wound channel facts that were posted for the pistol bullets. I had/have been shooting regular hollow point pistol bullets in my Sigs - one a 357 sig and the a 40 S&W. I had taken great pains to make sure I was not using a 'Home Defense" type bullet in the pistols that I was carrying in the woods while ML hunting. I wanted a bullet for yotes, wolves, black bear, and maybe even a cougar we have them all. The 'XP' was really what I needed. But, as I gained knowledge about them I thought - maybe a ML bullet of that design just might work.

Cavitation - whom ever mentioned that in one of these threads really opened my eyes - then after reading about 'cavitation' on line and having the bullet in hand looking at the design of the cavities in the nose it started to make sense. So now I need to apologize to Lehigh Dave who told me the straight scoop in the first place.

Today was the first step in the process of testing and checking for me. It was just a straight forward shooting day - just shooting paper. Next I want to do some velocity testing and finally some 'cavitation' testing.

I took two of my 45's to the fame this morning. A normal Knight DISC Extreme with a slow 1-30 twist and a Knight Super DISC with a faster 1-20 twist. Both rifles were scoped one with a Bushnell Elite 3x9 and the other with a Leupold Ultimate Slam 3x9. In addition the Super DISC was set for a near zero at 200 yards for yote and wolf hunting, so it is 3+ inches high @ 100



I set up a target, I ranged from the target back to the pick-up to be 100 yards, and decided to shoot the Super DISC first. Grouse had already done this so I was pretty confident that shooting the 100 would be just fine with the bullet. The only differences were he was shooting BH with a Harvester sabot and I was shooting T7-2f with a MMP sabot. In our discussion Grouse said to be sure and shoot some light powder loads as he had not done that. And as some one else suggested with this bullet it opens up some very good options for soft recoiling loads for those that would like it that way. The bullet will function as designed down to 800 fps and still provide really good penetration. So that was included in the test.

I started shooting 120 grains of T7 and using a MMP light tan sabot...



I shot four shots with that load then started backing the powder load down to 110, 90, 70, and finally 60 grains of powder.

It wasn't the best day to shoot because of the wind... the wind always blows at the farm but today it seemed really hardy, quartering from right to left across the range.

Here is the target - I felt I did very well up until the last shot of the day, a 60 grain shot with absolutely no recoil but I still managed to pull it away from the group... Also at the end of the shoot when I ranged back to the target from the portable bench it read 92 yards... So I labeled the target that way.



92 yards to the target



I did shoot the second rifle, the DISC Extreme, but the 1-30 twist, but it would not stabilize the bullet. All 3 shots did tumble. The solution for that as it has been in the past will probably be a slightly shorter 40x185+/- gr. XP.

Hope this hold some interest for some of you...

That's amazing accuracy. Can't wait to see how it works on game. Great shooting!!

I do not know why for sure other than I did try to wait out the gusts - it was just one of those GOOD days...

that is some great shooting!! No doubt about it. And with that much powder behind it.. that is a massive load as far as velocity and energy.

Hard to complain with those groups!! Great shooting SL!!

Where's all your snow? I know...we have it here in VA...:poke:

Shoot everybody out in the East seems to have snow, I was talking to Dave yesterday and he says he still has plenty in his front yard. Heck! my front yard I might have to mow here before to long.

We are in spring like weather - when I was going to shoot yesterday I complained to Terry about being cool - it was 43* - Feb. 25 - unheard of.

I am so accustomed to the good weather it is drizzling here a little bit now - rain not snow - and I want to run to the farm to shoot 1/28 and that field will probably be muddy! So dang the rain!!!!

Hoping you get decent results if and when you shoot with a 1:28 twist.

I am very happy shooting my Speer DeepCurls and occasional FPBs but this bullet has me intrigued enough that I might try them out in my .50 Disc Extreme. I don't think MMP makes a .50cal sabot for a .40 cal bullet but am pretty sure Harvester does.

Any chance Lehigh will make these in a .44 or .45?


edit - MMP does make a .50cal sabot for a .40 cal bullet, the blue HPH.

Harvester makes two, regular and crush rib.

The future Lehigh 230 grain 40-cal has perked my interest. I have plenty of 180-200 grain in 40-cal already. The only larger 40-cal I currently own is the 50/40 Precision Extreme Elite 260. So I'm looking to add-on to that larger segment, but at the same time, not spend my current 2nd option, Dead-Center-type money for it. The Exteme Elites were 75 cents a-piece. That fits my budget.

Testing in a 1/28 Twist 50 cal Rifle.
 

After shooting yesterday, I still had that nagging thought - I wonder if these will shoot in a 1-28 twist rifle. So this morning I did return to the farm with a Knight DISC Elite in 50 cal. The weather was lousy, well not really as compared to a normal winter, but it was raining the field was a muddy mess. But I needed to know.

You can see in this pic with the target and muddy tracks in the background and how wet it is and really can not see the mud to the best effect - but believe Palouse mud being mostly clay is yicky stuff.



Back to business - I used the same materials that I had used the day before, but today I only shot three 80 grain loads and three 120 grain loads. Plus a change of sabots - I was shooting the MMP 40x50 Blue.



I popped three primers to semi foul the bore loaded up the first round and decided what-the-heck and shot it at the target. Followed that with 2 more 80 grain shots on the target. I was thinking if a 80 grain load through a 1-28 - that should really be a good test for stability. Looking through the scope at the target I really only saw 2 holes and one of them was bigger than normal. I feared the worst 'Tumbling' again. But I was positive I heard the bullet hit all three shots. So I walked out in the mud and checked - I did hit it 3 times but it was hard to tell and no tumble.

walked back and loaded up the hunting load 120 grains 3 shots basically the same results...



So it really appears to me that the bullet will stabilize in a 1-28 twist.

I am hoping to get out again tomorrow and maybe get some chrono times.

I did get out and shoot a 1-28 today and they worked very well...

I was told that Lehigh would eventually makes these ML bullets. They are hoping to have 4 of these available in the next 3 weeks. I think they were running some the .452x250 yesterday for testing.

XP - Xtreme Penetrator
.400 185gr
.400 200gr
.452 250gr
.452 275gr

CF - Controlled Fracture
.400 185gr
.400 230gr
.452 250gr
.452 275gr

Xp .400 200 gr
CF .400 230 gr
These are the two i'm interested in using

They aren't legal for hunting Big Game in South Dakota.

They are legal for long range gong hunting :s2: which is what i want them for .

The controlled fracturing will be better for long range shooting over the XP.

sabotloader, thanks for the testing of the 1:28. Think I'll need to try them in my Knight.

Thanks Mike
Am I right in assuming that 210 or 215 grains in brass will be all a 1-28 twist can handle?

Lee, I am not really sure as I really not the ballistician that you are and certainly can not even come close to Lehigh Dave.

At one point I really feared that this new 200 XP might not shoot from a 1-28 and I think Tom had some concerns also. If I remember correctly Lehigh Dave had indicated 1-28 but he had also said that about the 40x200 CF. Myself and others found that we were able to shoot that one from a 1-30 without a problem.

The two bullets are the same length so it seems to me that it is something to do with the different configurations on the nose of the bullet.

What would be really cool is if some one could see the both bullets in flight cutting the air and see what pattern the might create.

This doesn't mean a thing and may be a figment of my imagination but when I shoot a CF bullet, even with ear plugs, I can hear a definite 'hiss' as the bullet travels and a definite 'click' when it hits a clay pigeon. With the XP, I do not recall the 'hiss' and more of a 'thump' when it hits the bird. But the greater 'thump' could be the wet clay immediately behind the bird.

I want to return to the farm early next week, again with the Elite 50, and shoot some extended ranges - 150 to 200 and see what the bullet might be doing at those ranges. If it achieves stability form a 1-28 at a hundred how long will it maintain stability? I guess I could ask Dave that one.

Dave has, I am sure, computed BC mathematically - again something I do not know for sure but I think Tom or I, at some point, is going to shoot it through two chromos to get a real life number.

I guess we all expect the BC to be lower than the CF bullet but the way it is shooting, I am not so sure. I have begun to wonder it the design of the nose in conjunction with the aero dynamic design of the cavitation cavities might not lessen the drag compared to the deep open hollow point. Again something I do not know - I am just a shooter/hunter.

Thanks for the report Sabot. That is some very good shooting and that bullet looks "nasty". I'm not sure how the expansion on this bullet would be. I'd really like to see that at a couple different velocities.
Although I never hit the shoulder, the deer I have taken with a .40 cal 200 gr XTP have all been pass throughs so I'm not sure these would provide any additional benefit to me.

That's my thinking also. At 65 yards a .40/200 XTP over 85 grains GOEX blew through the chest of a 110 lb. doe, spraying blood and lung matter on a bush ten feet behind her. That's pretty much all I need a bullet to do.

Bronco there is not expansion at all or of any very little. The destruction occurs when the bullet passes through and it creates 'cavitation' sort of like a propeller turning in water. The cavities collect fluid and then direct it out, up, and in a rotational turn. This cavitation causes the fluid to rips and tear and tear organs.

The bullet cavitation will function down to 800 fps. Because of this reduced loaded loads will work especially for the younger people and people that prefer a light recoiling fully functional bullet, but yet is strong enough to punch through the bone mass of an animal if you might hit a major bone.

The other day when I was shooting it with reduced loads - 90 gr. and on down seemed less recoil than shooting my 222 or 22-250 - yet the bullet would function (within a given range) much like it were shooting it with 120 grains.

Of all the Hornady's that I have shot from a ML or Rifle the 200XTP might be the most reliable. Even in torture testing I many less failures with it than any other Hornady - excluding their monlitics or bonded bullets.

The testing seems to indicate a great disruption through liquid which in turn can cause great devastation. The outstanding question in my mind is around the performance when minimal liquid in contacted.

Say for instance you punch both shoulders. While you can go through some lung, it's not the clean 'both lungs and heart' shot. If the bullet doesn't expand at all, how would the results compare to a traditional mushrooming bullet.

The bullet does make a decent wound channel while it is passing through an it still cuts a 1.5" permanent wound channel.

That's kind of what I was thinking as well. I mostly use the 200 grain SST now, which penetrates even better than the 200 XTP. Expansion/tissue damage is great too. Even when loaded down to 80 grains T7 it still does awesome with little recoil. Not bashing the Lehighs - I used the 185 grain CF bullets a few times with awesome results - just don't see what this bullet will do apart from the options I already have...

Accuracy seems to be awesome though, nice post!

When purchasing some 200 grain 40-cal in early January, I avoided the XTP and went with the SST because Hornady only rated the 200 gr XTP velocity range at 700-1200 fps.

Probably not much . My big lead conicals can do all that i need done but its kind of nice to have more options . The more options the better in my book .