inghamtr

I bought a Traditions Vortex 50 cal.pistol.Shot a 50 grain charge of 3f triple seven.The crud ring was so bad,,the next bullet was 2 inches off the powder.I know you are suppose to wipe between shots,but when you hunting you cant do that.I called Traditions customer service and they told me their guns shot just fine with triple seven and told me I could send it back and they would shoot it,clean it between shots and if it loaded,it was 100 %.They told me to try a lube on my sabot,it helps.I guess I need to check out different powders.But don't think I will ever buy another traditons product..I was speaking to one of their so called gunsmiths and he told me I was the only person to ever have a crud ring in their pistol.hmm he musta thought I was a little dumber than I am,,lol.

It is better to live one day as a lion,than a 100 years as a sheep

BuckDoeHunter

Only rifle I ever sold was traditions xlt, also had emails with customer service and gunsmith, also told my problems were normal wear and tear, never will buy another traditions rifle.

cayugad

They are pulling straws out their... they always have an excuse.

Don't lube the sabot. That will not effect the crud ring and its not recommended. All you can do is swab between shots. When you're hunting, take some patches with you. Even spit will remove T-7. Put the patch in your mouth and then swab with that if you're in the woods.

If you don't want to shoot BlackHorn 209 and don't want to swab, then use Jim Shockey Gold 3f powder. There is no swabbing with that.

inghamtr

I have some shockeys gold on hand. I will give that a try.I am going to have to break down n try some Blackhorn 209.It was $31 at the gun shop the other day.Triple Seven and Prodex was still running $19.Over the years I have been lucky enough to put some meat on the table with a quick second shot.

CVADAVE

I have the CVA Optima 50 cal pistol, with the 209 breech plug, Shooting 65 gr of powder weigh, we shoot 15 times sighting it in and playing with it, never swabed 1 time, just cleaned out the flash hole with the drill bit. Love that hand cannon.

inghamtr

I wish you hadn't said that Dave,,about the cva pistol..I was thinking about that one..lifes about choices,I will figure something out with the traditions pistol.

sabotloader

inghamtr

I will say this and speaking 'in general' a lot of the 'crud ring' could be related to what might be in your bore... especially when using a hot 209 primer. You did not say what primer you were using so I am assuming a 209.

I am assuming just by your post this is a new pistol. So my first question would be did strip clean the bore? Often the preservatives that company use are a real pain to get out of the bore but they really do need to removed.

Also I have found using synthetic bore oil is far better than using a petroleum based bore oil.

Most often, the 'crud ring' is caused by the heat of T7 burning something in the bore other than the powder. And usually the ring is formed right under the base of the bullet not up the barrel as I think you have indicated.

One other thought, you may find as you shoot and care for the bore in what I will call the proper method the size/amount of the 'crud ring' will decrease.

And as Cayugad has already suggested following his suggestions will solve the problem while shooting.

NORMALLY, while hunting I can shoot 4-5 shots before the 'crud ring' becomes a problem - sometimes even more...

inghamtr

I ran a brush down the bore and swabbed it out with hoppes gun cleaner,,a few dry patches and fired a couple of primers.. Actually I have shot the pistol on two different occasions with the same results. You are more than likely right. sabot loader I need to scrub the heck out of the barrel.. I have had a couple of inline traditions in the past and they where fine rifles so I am not going to bash them..It could be something I am doing wrong,so I will take suggestions and work on it.I tried cci inline muzzleloading primers the first time and federal 209a shotgun primers the second time.

sabotloader

Try some alcohol patches or even run some boiling water through the bore that will strip all the lubricants out of the bore...

Then find the mildest 209 primers you can find like T7 primers and I think Winchester makes another ML Primers. But if you make the switch to BH-209 you will probably have to use hotter primers...

Shotgun Primers

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML......244 f.p.s.
Remington 209 Kleanbore ML .........318 f.p.s.
Std. Winchester No. W209A ...........336 f.p.s.
Remington STS.............................338 f.p.s.
Std. Remington No. 209 ................341 f.p.s.
Cheddite No. 209 .........................347 f.p.s.
CCI 209M.....................................379 f.p.s.
Federal No. 209A ..........................381 f.p.s.

Rifle/Pistol Primers

Winchester WSP "Small Pistol" ….......116 f.p.s.
Winchester WSR "Small Rifle" ..........143 f.p.s

falcon

The culprit is potassium carbonate, a product of combustion. At high temperatures the potassium carbonate fuses to form a hard crud ring. Fusing of the potassium carbonate is caused by high environmental temperatures, large powder charges, hot primers, lubricants in the bore, some patch lubes, some conical lubes, and a failure to let the gun cool between shots; among other things.

Triple Seven is a hot burning powder. The gun heats up very fast, especially with large powder charges.

Recently i've started experimenting with my supply of Triple Seven powder. My .54 New Englander rifle loves 70 grains of Triple Seven and a patched round ball. It fires every time using a #11 Winchester magnum cap.

i'm also shooting 70-80 grains of Triple Seven and sabots in my .50 CVA StagHorn. The cap is the Winchester magnum #11.

i don't like to swab between shots, so generally i don't do that. The StagHorn has a pristine bore, i've fired as many as ten shots of Triple Seven from that gun without swabbing. Can't do that with the New Englander, maybe because the bore has some rust on the trailing edges of the rifling.

One day i tried Triple Seven in my .54 TC FireHawk. Forgot to swab the Militec lube from the bore before firing. In addition to the crud ring, the entire bore was coated with a very hard black crud. Removal of that crud required Windex with vinegar on a Scotch Brite patch. Took 20 minutes to get the bore clean.