knight mountaineer
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: southcentral iowa
Posts: 5
knight mountaineer
» December 23rd, 2014, 6:18 am
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
#2
» December 23rd, 2014, 6:18 am
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
Now here's a statement I'm going to make, that's going to get under the skin of all the EXPERTS of muzzleloading......
Change from the Win209's to one of the magnum primers, either the CCI209M or Federal 209A.
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
I would also suggest trying 100 grain loads..... then tweak it up or down.
Stay away from 110s - 120s type loads until you find a bullet and sabot that likes the combo.
But that can become an expensive project. Is it too late to ask Santa for an assortment of bullets and sabots?
Just don't ask the Santa I caught last December on my neighbor's roof?...
Stay away from 110s - 120s type loads until you find a bullet and sabot that likes the combo.
But that can become an expensive project. Is it too late to ask Santa for an assortment of bullets and sabots?
Just don't ask the Santa I caught last December on my neighbor's roof?...
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
I also have a few boxes of the Federal 209A. Seems to me I recall one of my two brands had a little loose fit and would sometimes escape my Omega when walking in the woods.
Maybe that's why I'm sitting here looking at two different brands of primers.
Last edited by Triple Se7en; 12-23-2014 at 05:51 AM.
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
What i experienced with the Mountaineer, is the bits of powder, and soot in the barrel, kinda act like a lubricant i.e. the bullet/sabot went down the barrel easier, after it was fouled. Never did i ever clean the barrel, nor the breech plug, whilst at the range. Can't for sure write how many shots i put down the fouled barrel during one trip out shooting, but seems to me it may be around 30 or 20. The breech plug with it's large volume flame channel, never required cleaning until i came home.
If it were me concerned about accuracy, i guess i would start with about 90g of powder, and keep adding until there was a noticeable difference in accuracy. To really 'know' the best load may require many many trips out shooting, and many bottles of powder, boxes of primers, boxes of bullets, and containers of sabots. All the rifles i take hunting anymore, are loaded with 110 to 115g of powder, because i hunt the great plains, and desire long range capability. For short range hunting, i would probably use 80 or 90 grains of powder.
The Mountaineer should be able to safely handle 140g of powder, and no cleaning of the barrel, or the breech plug, should be required between shots.
If it were me concerned about accuracy, i guess i would start with about 90g of powder, and keep adding until there was a noticeable difference in accuracy. To really 'know' the best load may require many many trips out shooting, and many bottles of powder, boxes of primers, boxes of bullets, and containers of sabots. All the rifles i take hunting anymore, are loaded with 110 to 115g of powder, because i hunt the great plains, and desire long range capability. For short range hunting, i would probably use 80 or 90 grains of powder.
The Mountaineer should be able to safely handle 140g of powder, and no cleaning of the barrel, or the breech plug, should be required between shots.
#6
Change from the Win209's to one of the magnum primers, either the CCI209M or Federal 209A.
How clean were the CCI209M and Fed209As after you shot them with BH209?
Let me know if they looked like these Win209s
These were all max 120gr loads with 300gr-385gr bullets in my 54-120. Oddly even the WinT7 were flawless but i dont recommend them for BH209.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 12-23-2014 at 07:03 AM.
#7
How many Knights with the Lehigh design breach plug have you owned and shot?
How clean were the CCI209M and Fed209As after you shot them with BH209?
Let me know if they looked like these Win209s
These were all max 120gr loads with 300gr-385gr bullets in my 54-120. Oddly even the WinT7 were flawless but i dont recommend them for BH209.
How clean were the CCI209M and Fed209As after you shot them with BH209?
Let me know if they looked like these Win209s
These were all max 120gr loads with 300gr-385gr bullets in my 54-120. Oddly even the WinT7 were flawless but i dont recommend them for BH209.
Well that just impresses the living heck out of me. Especially the rings around the two centered right primers and the soot under the bottom left.
#9
#10
» December 23rd, 2014, 6:18 am
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
So I'm new to the muzzleloader thing. Bought a knight mountaineer this year and put a vortex 4-16x42 on it. Here's what I'm doing then I'll go into my problem. Started off shooting 120 grains of bh209 with a Winchester 209 primer (blue box) and bloodline 250. The barrel is unbelievably dirty after each shot. Also I was having trouble grouping shots. Swabbing after each shot. Taking the breech plug out after every 3 or 4 shots. Went down to 110 grains and started grouping a little bit better but still extremely dirty barrel. I was under the impression that bh209 was cleaner burning. I mean I'm seeing little bits of powder in the barrel not just a haze. Any info or which direction to head would be much appreciated or anyone with knowledge on this gun.
Thanks
One question I might ask is after you got the rifle did you really clean the bore? This could have made some difference in your results.
There is really no reason to remove the breech plug until you are done shooting. You should clean the flash channel in the breech plug every 10-15 shots by hand turning a 5/32" drill bit in the channel to loosen and remove the carbon build up. This is a common problem with all breech plugs.
I just make a gadget called a bit on a stick for this and do not have to remove the BP to do the cleaning... Just pull the bolt insert the tool and twist.
Your load of 120 grains of BH and the 250 Bloodline should work very well especially after you master the little things in shooting a ML that are so much different that shooting a center fire. I typically use the same load only with T7.
The breech plug was built using the W209 as the base primer. The way the plug is built there is not need to use Magnum primers and in fact I think it is a bit of a detriment. Of course they will work but are not necessary.
I shoot the W209 almost exclusively in all of my Knights, well shoot any of my rifles that the BP has been modified for BH.
This picture shows the spent primer from my Ultra Lite
Keep shooting and reading things will get a lot better. OH! and questions are good
mike